HH 44 by the Wynss

[cat123]

First tour of the HH44 by the Wynns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swrhADogTz4

[slowNlow]

Cool boat. Tons of neat features packed into a small package.

Hate the helms tho. Personal preference.

Wonder how it goes.

[Nahbrown]

After sailing a L440 for 4 yrs a protected helm is high on my list of priorities. So is a boat that sails well in light winds! I am impressed with the HH44 and at this point the two concerns I would have are how exposed the helms are to side and aft wind/rain and the lack of bow pulpits or my wife


I will be watching to see what dodger/enclosure solutions the Wynns come up with or if my concerns are unfounded.

[Kinkircating]

I think the HH44 looks like a fantastic catamaran, they did a great job on this one and agree it has the feel of a much bigger boat because of how they integrated the fold up transom platform and all the windows. I watched the video walkthrough of the boat and just wondered to myself where is the average cruising couple going to put any of their "stuff". I think it would be great if when selling these boats, all vessels of a similar size would have to have onboard a basic kit of gear boats will have. That would make it much clearer what the trade-offs are for performance especially on a smaller boat.

-The sail lockers are tiny, how in the world are you going to stuff a Asym sail bag down into that triangular opening? Also, not sure I'm keen on the Watermaker access being through the locker, but you got to fit it somewhere.
There is almost no cabinetry down below, and I understand this is on purpose and it looks great and saves hundreds of pounds.
-I don't get people's fascination with a forward-facing navigation station. in the last 7,000 or so miles I've spent exactly zero minutes at a nav desk, and it never crossed my mind to do so. All that space underneath is wasted...but sure looks cool! Maybe I'm the outlier here. Less storage will definitely keep your boat lighter!
-Where's the pantry to store enough food to be off-grid for weeks/months at a time?
-Where do you store your paddle boards/surf boards/fishing gear/etc. With those folding safari windows, it takes up your ability to use the underside of the coach roof to store stuff.
-I'm not a fan of the transom helms, but that's a personal choice...and do you really need dual helms on a 44'cat? What about when it's raining sideways and huge seas, to me this is a deal breaker, but others love them. Plus, that helm seat looks extremely uncomfortable and not ergonomically designed at all. Having to look through 2 sets of glass window and being as far from the opposite bow as possible isn't ideal.
-Love those giant opening windows and I'm jealous, but you could never have them open while underway in any type of sea state. I have to believe HH has a way to assure they won't leak, but damn that is a huge surface area that has to be perfectly sealed with two little handles.


That being said, there is way more to like about the HH44 than to critique and my take-away is I probably need to learn to live with less stuff...or basically no stuff so my wife can use the space I have allotted for my gear lol : ) They are going to (continue to) sell like hotcakes I imagine it's a beautiful and innovative design!

[fxykty]

On another thread there was a linked video to a ‘performance cat comparison’ that worked through the numbers, both engineering and financial. The HH44 and Seawind 1370, both relatively new boats recently selected by two sets of vloggers, scored very low on most measures; effectively over-priced, overly heavy and consequently under canvassed.

Certainly the videos show that the 1370 sails like a dog and the boiling white water behind her immersed wide sterns does not bode well for light and medium air sailing ability. The new owners have already realised that their hidden bulkhead helms are unusable for visibility - looking though several sets of glass just doesn’t work. The size of the engines (50 hp!!!) indicates that the boat was designed for motor sailing.

The HH44 in the mini keel version also has fat, fully immersed sterns and a lot of wetted surface area. Good luck with that.

[Snowgoose35]

I can't see how the HH can perform to the hype they set when announced a couple of years ago with the sheer amount of heavy stuff aboard

The design will make it faster than a Lagoon etc sure but its unlikely to be keeping up with a Dazcat or even an Outremer . I watched the video thinking - that's nice but maybe I could spec it without that bit as its too heavy/unnecessary/ likely to break

And as an aside I object to the hype given to digital switching - you can perfectly well do distributed fusing to save on wire and of course its hugely less expensive and safer. I have discussed it with manufacturers and users extensively and sure, the nodes can reroute if damaged and actual fuses can be used if the the software or the solo , no back up available control screen breaks but that means finding the main hub (normally in an engine room , switching manually over to the fuse function, possibly in the dark in heavy weather) and then having no switches just fuses unless you switch back to the the Broken auto function as a switch. It works well most of the time but adds about £3k to the cost of a boat for the convenience of a smaller panel but for remote long term cruising it just worries me way too much to want one - I can get a new fuse in any island in the world; repair or replacement on a high tech digital switching system - not sure how I'd fair there

[Franziska]

Honestly, speed is for many not of the essence when living aboard.
Usually you have time, because you don't need time to fit into holiday windows or the like.

Sure, it's nice, but a well layed out stable platform that sails ok is already a great base.

[Snowgoose35]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Honestly, speed is for many not of the essence when living aboard.
Usually you have time, because you don't need time to fit into holiday windows or the like.

Sure, it's nice, but a well layed out stable platform that sails ok is already a great base.

I appreciate that view - having lived aboard , continuously cruising for almost 11 years now though, personally I really appreciate speed. Not 25 knots Dazcat type speed , but 10-12 knots even in lighter winds type speed. If I could consistently achieve an average of 10-12 knots over all passages I would be ecstatic. I just read the original hype for the 44 a couple of years back and loved the solar and hybrid aspects, liked the looks , but they pushed it as a fast cruising cat to rival Outremer etc and I suspect the truth will be somewhat disappointing with all the extras on board...

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by Snowgoose35

And as an aside I object to the hype given to digital switching - you can perfectly well do distributed fusing to save on wire and of course its hugely less expensive and safer. I have discussed it with manufacturers and users extensively and sure, the nodes can reroute if damaged and actual fuses can be used if the the software or the solo , no back up available control screen breaks but that means finding the main hub (normally in an engine room , switching manually over to the fuse function, possibly in the dark in heavy weather) and then having no switches just fuses unless you switch back to the the Broken auto function as a switch. It works well most of the time but adds about £3k to the cost of a boat for the convenience of a smaller panel but for remote long term cruising it just worries me way too much to want one - I can get a new fuse in any island in the world; repair or replacement on a high tech digital switching system - not sure how I'd fair there

I think you misunderstand digital switching a bit?

The digital switching if done right is much better than old style. No longer having current carrying wires to a switch and THEN onto the load is much better and safer. The on/off switches can be simple "low power" rated with no issues. If water gets in a low power switch (happens often) - nothing bad really happens. On a higher powered switch - corrosion is expedited. Wires for the On/Off switches are smaller and easier to route.

Wires go in "multi star" vs "single star" - so you don't have a complete rats nest at the main switchboard.

The weight saving on a 45' monohull done right is more than 100-200 kg of cable.

ABYC say you have to have to be able to override any electronic fuse with a manual fuse. All the CZone devices have had it for the last 20? years. CZone uses normal fuses for backup that you can buy anywhere - or "borrow" from a car on the dock.

I would ALWAYS have "on/off switches" like "normal" and not rely on a screen based device. But screen based switching is nice for some things - as an additional - not as the "main" switches.

Negatives - well to add/remove things to your switch network - you need a computer with the correct configuration software. Some idiot Digital Switching companies limit configuration to their "authorised" installers. CZone does not. CZone DOES allow for installer putting a password on a configuration file. If I buy a new boat I would insist on getting the configuration file + password - at least on the day the warranty expire.

Armed with a PC and a "cheap" MasterVolt USB->MasterVolt->N2k cable or Simrad ST10 USB->SimNet-> N2k interface you can program and setup the CZone switch system.

CZone sell the Simrad ST10 for about 3x what Simrad charges and call it a CZone config cable

I'm not affiliated with CZone apart from having done and maintained quite a few installations. I never had any official CZone training.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

I think the HH44 looks like a fantastic catamaran, they did a great job on this one and agree it has the feel of a much bigger boat because of how they integrated the fold up transom platform and all the windows. I watched the video walkthrough of the boat and just wondered to myself where is the average cruising couple going to put any of their "stuff". I think it would be great if when selling these boats, all vessels of a similar size would have to have onboard a basic kit of gear boats will have. That would make it much clearer what the trade-offs are for performance especially on a smaller boat.

-The sail lockers are tiny, how in the world are you going to stuff a Asym sail bag down into that triangular opening? Also, not sure I'm keen on the Watermaker access being through the locker, but you got to fit it somewhere.
There is almost no cabinetry down below, and I understand this is on purpose and it looks great and saves hundreds of pounds.
-I don't get people's fascination with a forward-facing navigation station. in the last 7,000 or so miles I've spent exactly zero minutes at a nav desk, and it never crossed my mind to do so. All that space underneath is wasted...but sure looks cool! Maybe I'm the outlier here. Less storage will definitely keep your boat lighter!
-Where's the pantry to store enough food to be off-grid for weeks/months at a time?
-Where do you store your paddle boards/surf boards/fishing gear/etc. With those folding safari windows, it takes up your ability to use the underside of the coach roof to store stuff.
-I'm not a fan of the transom helms, but that's a personal choice...and do you really need dual helms on a 44'cat? What about when it's raining sideways and huge seas, to me this is a deal breaker, but others love them. Plus, that helm seat looks extremely uncomfortable and not ergonomically designed at all. Having to look through 2 sets of glass window and being as far from the opposite bow as possible isn't ideal.
-Love those giant opening windows and I'm jealous, but you could never have them open while underway in any type of sea state. I have to believe HH has a way to assure they won't leak, but damn that is a huge surface area that has to be perfectly sealed with two little handles.


That being said, there is way more to like about the HH44 than to critique and my take-away is I probably need to learn to live with less stuff...or basically no stuff so my wife can use the space I have allotted for my gear lol : ) They are going to (continue to) sell like hotcakes I imagine it's a beautiful and innovative design!

The wynn's are YouTubers and that foward Navstation makes a great working desk and a great protected helm with the autopilot. Instead of chartplotter and would integrate a huge screen with a nice dashboard for all the systems that you can also use as monitor for your laptop.
I spent 0 time at the nav desk as well but on this boat i would as its perfectly ergonomical and just right.
Thats why you don't need a super protected helm, if its getting too nasty just stay inside and operate from forward facing nav desk.
They have enough lockers for 2 and their gear.

Its my dream boat as everything is where it should be and the hybrid betas are a great option. I am not a fan of e-boats but that combo is perfect as for the short in and out of a anchorage and setting sail the e-engine is perfect. Longer motoring with diesel and gives you huge alternators right away.

Really curious how it performs under sail with the wing keels.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

The wynn's are YouTubers and that foward Navstation makes a great working desk and a great protected helm with the autopilot. Instead of chartplotter and would integrate a huge screen with a nice dashboard for all the systems that you can also use as monitor for your laptop.
I spent 0 time at the nav desk as well but on this boat i would as its perfectly ergonomical and just right.
Thats why you don't need a super protected helm, if its getting too nasty just stay inside and operate from forward facing nav desk.
They have enough lockers for 2 and their gear.

Its my dream boat as everything is where it should be and the hybrid betas are a great option. I am not a fan of e-boats but that combo is perfect as for the short in and out of a anchorage and setting sail the e-engine is perfect. Longer motoring with diesel and gives you huge alternators right away.

Really curious how it performs under sail with the wing keels.

Yep, it is definitely a dream boat, I’m looking forward to checking it out in Annapolis next week (if it arrives in time, fingers crossed).

I agree that for a couple that’s still working full time, having that desk space is ideal, the Wynn’s make incredible videos and the production quality is better than most TV shows, their hard work and creativity really shows.

The only reason I’m a little hesitant to adopt all electric or a hybrid system is the fact that performance catamarans sail so well they only use maybe $3k/yr in diesel fuel. The payback just isn’t there to justify the expense or extra complexity, yet. It will get there no doubt & I’m very glad HH is leading the charge (pun intended), because this will only help the entire industry move forward, learn, and move closer to full e-propulsion being the norm.

I am also curious to get a vantage point of standing at the helm to see how well you are able to see the sail trim. I’m guessing it’s good, but still something you’ve got to experience first hand to understand.

[fxykty]

We like watching the Wynns and have done so for several years )we call them ‘the puppies’, as they are generally very enthusiastic. Interest in their videos is waning as they brag on their new boat. They and RR2 are in an area that we’re interested in cruising in the future, so we do keep watching.

I’m not too sure that winglets add any benefit to a cat - wing keels were designed to get the ballast effect of a deeper keel with a shallower one. The additional hydrodynamic benefit of decreased tip losses doesn’t apply to a wide aspect ratio keel like on a cat.

I think the HH44 is too short and too heavy to sail like it’s advertised. The exposed and very low helms are useless. Just as are the hidden bulkhead helms of RR2’s Seawind 1370. That boat doesn’t seem to sail very well either.

The nav desk position and visibility on the HH44 is great. On our cat, albeit with sloped windows so less visibility, we often use it while watch keeping. I think they will use that position often, especially night watches.

The lack of storage spaces of the HH44 is concerning. But they will figure that out.

[Sand crab]

I just can't get past the made in China issue. We buy enough stuff made over there, do we have to buy boats too? I used to watch the Wynn's all the time but when they announced this new boat which was made in "asia" it was a total no go for me. I haven't watched any of their videos since.

However, HH says future 44s and 52s will be made in Cebu, Philipines which is a great move.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

Yep, it is definitely a dream boat, I’m looking forward to checking it out in Annapolis next week (if it arrives in time, fingers crossed).

I agree that for a couple that’s still working full time, having that desk space is ideal, the Wynn’s make incredible videos and the production quality is better than most TV shows, their hard work and creativity really shows.

The only reason I’m a little hesitant to adopt all electric or a hybrid system is the fact that performance catamarans sail so well they only use maybe $3k/yr in diesel fuel. The payback just isn’t there to justify the expense or extra complexity, yet. It will get there no doubt & I’m very glad HH is leading the charge (pun intended), because this will only help the entire industry move forward, learn, and move closer to full e-propulsion being the norm.

I am also curious to get a vantage point of standing at the helm to see how well you are able to see the sail trim. I’m guessing it’s good, but still something you’ve got to experience first hand to understand.

I never want to have full electric on a bluewater cruiser, having backup is good. the hybrid combo is perfect having essentially very big alternators on that work in reverse as motors and i would get a smaller battery pack that is really intended to move in/out of anchorage or habour that is actually usable for house as well (no idea if you can do that now). All that shortterm part where your diesel hardly gets warm and get more wear&tear. Longer motor just diesel, you are right the huge battery pack is not worth it. And that would significantly lower the cost.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

I never want to have full electric on a bluewater cruiser, having backup is good. the hybrid combo is perfect having essentially very big alternators on that work in reverse as motors and i would get a smaller battery pack that is really intended to move in/out of anchorage or habour that is actually usable for house as well (no idea if you can do that now). All that shortterm part where your diesel hardly gets warm and get more wear&tear. Longer motor just diesel, you are right the huge battery pack is not worth it. And that would significantly lower the cost.

I’m always cautious to say “never”, I agree with today’s technology the hybrid is the correct choice if you want some level of e-propulsion. When I requested from HH the cost to upgrade their HH55 to this same parallel hybrid the cost was $100k. So in this case the payback was 35 years before it would have paid for itself after factoring in fuel and maintenance savings. Basically longer than any of the components / systems would last.

Now if you were to integrate a system yourself like MJ sailing is doing on their catamaran build you could realistically have it make sense. Maybe I’m not considering something in the equation? The big thing is performance cats sail so well, you are motoring much less.