HH 44 hull #1 Sea Trials

[bhobbs]

Originally Posted by HUFFnPUFF

That is my point... with all the hype, I thought this boat was going to scream. So far, its just ok.

Notice how HH has taken the polar diagrams down off the website too.

Or maybe I am going crazy, I'm sure they were there before.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by bhobbs

Notice how HH has taken the polar diagrams down off the website too.

Or maybe I am going crazy, I'm sure they were there before.

I don't think the Wynn's shake down cruise is at all a good indicator of how the boat will perform overall. I too would be cautious and hesitant to push my new 1.5 million dollar home until I had a better handle on how it reacts.

The boat does look awesome and well built like any other HH.

Here are the polars from a previous video by the Wynns:

[Cheyne]

I believe they also mentioned that Doyle has more work to do on the sails so they fit correctly.

Cheyne

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

I believe they also mentioned that Doyle has more work to do on the sails so they fit correctly.

Cheyne

Interesting hearing this as it’s similar to SLVs issues with their Doyle sails for their Rapido. I’m surprised with the choice of using Doyle. Always thought if you want performance go with North or Quantum.

[JustMurph]

They're definitely well under the what the polars say.....but....I rarely believe what any of these polars say.

I might be wrong here (and I'd love to hear if others know otherwise) but what I've observed and something that the polars don't show accurately, is that it takes some power to push a heavier cat past its hull speed.

Case in point would be my Mumby. She's a pretty loaded full time live aboard, so a little porky. I don't know the exact number, but maybe 9-10t. While I can push her into the mid teens, and some times high teens (19.4 knots PB in flat water, not surfing), we spend most of our time sailing between 9-10 knots (if we have 15knots TWS or more). It doesn't take a lot of power to get there. I can be sailing at 9 in as little as 12 knots TWS. But if I want to push over 10, now I really need to load her up. Once she gets over that hump at around 13, you can feel her break free and take off.

On the other hand, a light ship Mumby without all the stuff pushes straight over than hull speed hump with little effort.

The HH44 has a hull speed of 8.8 knots, is more than 2.5t heavier and 1.1m shorter LWL than the Mumby. I'm sure some high end NA on the hull shapes will help, but I just can't see it pushing through the hull speed hump easily. The polars never show that hump.

This is also why you won't see the production cats sailing much over hull speed.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

I believe they also mentioned that Doyle has more work to do on the sails so they fit correctly.

Cheyne

Similar problem Doyle should stick to monohulls.

[Cheyne]

I wonder if the Doyle problem comes from HH having to redo the standing rigging on the Wynn's boat several times to get it right. First to long then to short.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

They're definitely well under the what the polars say.....but....I rarely believe what any of these polars say.

I might be wrong here (and I'd love to hear if others know otherwise) but what I've observed and something that the polars don't show accurately, is that it takes some power to push a heavier cat past its hull speed.

Case in point would be my Mumby. She's a pretty loaded full time live aboard, so a little porky. I don't know the exact number, but maybe 9-10t. While I can push her into the mid teens, and some times high teens (19.4 knots PB in flat water, not surfing), we spend most of our time sailing between 9-10 knots (if we have 15knots TWS or more). It doesn't take a lot of power to get there. I can be sailing at 9 in as little as 12 knots TWS. But if I want to push over 10, now I really need to load her up. Once she gets over that hump at around 13, you can feel her break free and take off.

On the other hand, a light ship Mumby without all the stuff pushes straight over than hull speed hump with little effort.

The HH44 has a hull speed of 8.8 knots, is more than 2.5t heavier and 1.1m shorter LWL than the Mumby. I'm sure some high end NA on the hull shapes will help, but I just can't see it pushing through the hull speed hump easily. The polars never show that hump.

This is also why you won't see the production cats sailing much over hull speed.

A 9:1 Lwl/Bwl tells a lot of the story. She won't be a great light wind sailor, but will carry a cruising load well and still be faster than a Lagoon/Leopard (5:1 to 7:1). The rocker and stern section will promote planning - what the Mumby 48 doesn't have with it's narrow stern - but it takes a lot of sail to overcome its weight and hull drag before it gets over the hump.

[donradcliffe]

I don't see why the fixation on maximum speed. The critical factor on these hybrid cats is how much regen power you average under normal conditions--how long does it take to recharge your propulsion battery while sailing. Its all about dumping the IC engines, and they are getting closer.

On my Mono, when the battery got low and the winds were above 10 knots, I'd go for a sail and let my solar, wind and water generators work. I'd be putting in 30 amps, more if reaching, and have plenty to live on at the end of the day. The water generator maxed out at 200 watts at 7.5 knots, which didn't affect the boat speed much Every tradewind passage I sailed ended with full batteries unless I was trying to beat in less than 10 knots of wind, when boat speed dropped to 5k and output dropped to 10 watts. I still had the diesel if there was no wind...

If you have a controllable pitch prop, it should give you a lot of options on speed loss regen rate. I would go KISS and go for a manual control on pitch.

I can't stand the Wynns, but I will follow them for a while to get more data on the hybrid system. Unfortunately the signal to noise ratio on their blog is really low.

[JustMurph]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

A 9:1 Lwl/Bwl tells a lot of the story. She won't be a great light wind sailor, but will carry a cruising load well and still be faster than a Lagoon/Leopard (5:1 to 7:1). The rocker and stern section will promote planning - what the Mumby 48 doesn't have with it's narrow stern - but it takes a lot of sail to overcome its weight and hull drag before it gets over the hump.

Totally agree about the different stern shapes and what they'll do. Going back and looking at the polar table, it does show a bit of a speed bump in the 9-10 knot range, so I'll take the comment back (about it being linear over the transition). The HH44 sterns aren't actually crazy wide.

Donradcliffe: Agreed that max speed isn't everything. In practice we just don't sail the boat super fast all that often. High average speeds (across all conditions) is what is important (to me at least!). That'll also translate to good regen on a hybrid boat.

Another area where the HH could shine (we'll see) if off the wind, surfing waves. I would hope that with all of the NA pedigree behind it, she'll be an easy boat to handle at speed.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by JustMurph

Another area where the HH could shine (we'll see) if off the wind, surfing waves. I would hope that with all of the NA pedigree behind it, she'll be an easy boat to handle at speed.

This is the first HH NOT designed by Morelli & Melvin. The 44 is designed by James Hakes, who I believe is their inhouse designer. If so, then he's at least seen a lot of the Morelli & Melvin elements of the other HHs, so probably has a better handle than most on what makes them tick.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

This is the first HH NOT designed by Morelli & Melvin. The 44 is designed by James Hakes, who I believe is their inhouse designer. If so, then he's at least seen a lot of the Morelli & Melvin elements of the other HHs, so probably has a better handle than most on what makes them tick.

Suggest he might be related to Paul Hakes CEO

[Cheyne]

Son....

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Suggest he might be related to Paul Hakes CEO

A bit of nepotism, but at least the result is good looking : )

[donradcliffe]

I haven't seen any H44 videos in open ocean waves. so wonder how the reverse bows perform. Kinda reminds me of the equally hyped Alpha 42 that turned out badly. As I recall that one didn't have enough buoyance forward, as well as rudder problems.