How many cats have flipped ?

[Saleen411]

I'm so confused....As a person who sails cats and wants to learn all things about cats, I keep clicking on this thread and getting lost in the secret code connection between cats and food/environmental issues. I"m sure I'm missing something REALLY important somewhere.

Cats flipping and veganism....hmmmm..

Cats flipping and food in Chile.....hmmmm

Cats flipping and cow farts....hmmmm

Cats flipping and how the planet is near catastrophic collapse.

I had NO idea cats, or the potential of flipping cats was connected to SO many important environmental, dietary and even planetary issues. WOW!

Maybe if someone started a thread on catamaran dynamic stability, we might actually LEARN something. Nah.....

Sorry...veganism is just wrong. If God had intended us to eat nothing but plants. he wouldn't have made animals sooooo tasty.

On a serious note.....I've read that a nice, modern catamaran like an FP Helia, requires a cross wind of just over 45 knots to either flip or dismast with all sails up.

I will contemplate this over my 28 oz Texas size cut of prime rib dinner.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

. . . Sorry...veganism is just wrong. If God had intended us to eat nothing but plants. he wouldn't have made animals sooooo tasty.

I have not been able to convert all of my friends to veganism, despite the immense persuasive power of cooking them tasty vegan meals . . .



One of those likes to say "If God didn't intend us to eat animals, He would not have made them out of food . . . "

Originally Posted by Saleen411

. . .I will contemplate this over my 28 oz Texas size cut of prime rib dinner.

I have alerted the Carbon Police to your outrageous and unjustifiable action, and they will now come to your house and take you off to a certified Reeducation Camp, where you will be tortured until you see the error of your ways. The science shows that there is NO ROOM for people to eat 28 oz steaks.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by davb

I sailed a 70’ ketch-rigged cat in the Pacific some years ago. My experience suggests two categories:

1. Extreme survival conditions
2. Normal sailing

In the first category, assuming well-designed and constructed boats, I would rather take my chances in a monohull than a multihull.

In the second category, I don’t think it matters as long as the skipper is competent and understands his/her boat. A good multihull skipper knows that the boat must be sailed by the numbers: when the wind and waves are thus and so it’s time to reef. The multihull won’t send signals that she is overcanvassed. The first signal will likely be something breaks. If she is sailing on the edge of disaster already, a gust or a higher wave can capsize her. A monohull, on the other hand, will let you know that she is being pushed too hard by heeling too much.

Large cruising cats are a fairly recent phenomenon. I wouldn’t put too much stock in insurance statistics.

True.. A Lagoon I delivered had the recommended reefing guide alongside the helm..
Full sail to 25kts.. and graduations down from that starting with full jib, 1 reef in main.
Needless to say I ignored it and went by boat feel.. in my opinion following that guide puts needless stress on everything.
On a Bali 4.5 I reefed at 20kts because I felt she was overpressed, despite the owners protests.
Step back in amazement.. she maintained 12kts over the ground but slamming virtually disappeared with the lee hull no longer being driven down into the seas..
All I can presume is these so called guides are set in fairly smooth sheltered water close to land where wind speeds cannot build the seas one would get 10nm further out.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I have alerted the Carbon Police to your outrageous and unjustifiable action, and they will now come to your house and take you off to a certified Reeducation Camp, where you will be tortured until you see the error of your ways . . . . .

You mean a Vegan restaurant.???

[MicHughV]

if it floats or has tits it's gonna cost you money and give you problems...but that doesn't stop anyone from having and enjoying either...so just live with the fickle foibles of both...

[smj]

Originally Posted by davb

I sailed a 70’ ketch-rigged cat in the Pacific some years ago. My experience suggests two categories:



1. Extreme survival conditions

2. Normal sailing



In the first category, assuming well-designed and constructed boats, I would rather take my chances in a monohull than a multihull.



In the second category, I don’t think it matters as long as the skipper is competent and understands his/her boat. A good multihull skipper knows that the boat must be sailed by the numbers: when the wind and waves are thus and so it’s time to reef. The multihull won’t send signals that she is overcanvassed. The first signal will likely be something breaks. If she is sailing on the edge of disaster already, a gust or a higher wave can capsize her. A monohull, on the other hand, will let you know that she is being pushed too hard by heeling too much.



Large cruising cats are a fairly recent phenomenon. I wouldn’t put too much stock in insurance statistics.

Not true, an experienced multihull sailor can tell by the feel of their catamaran when she needs to be reefed, doesn’t have to go by the numbers.

[Chotu]

This thread....

Link to funny video (click)

That video reminds me a lot of some of this thread.

[pjr03]

Ok, so we are at "sea" with monos vs cats. What would the reactions be to trimarans? Say around 9m long.

[Velejador]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I've seen plenty of pics of them upside down.

Come to think of it, I've never seen a photo of a sunken monohull.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

Not true, an experienced multihull sailor can tell by the feel of their catamaran when she needs to be reefed, doesn’t have to go by the numbers.

This is quite true. After you have owned a catamaran for a while, you can feel when it’s not doing well. It starts to heel a little bit. You end up feeling the leeward bow digging in a little more than the windward one.

It’s no longer riding along flat and level as it usually does.

You feel a little bit of deceleration every time that leeward bow sticks in too much.

That’s when you know you are over powering it.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by boatman61

True.. A Lagoon I delivered had the recommended reefing guide alongside the helm..
Full sail to 25kts.. and graduations down from that starting with full jib, 1 reef in main.
Needless to say I ignored it and went by boat feel.. in my opinion following that guide puts needless stress on everything.
On a Bali 4.5 I reefed at 20kts because I felt she was overpressed, despite the owners protests.
Step back in amazement.. she maintained 12kts over the ground but slamming virtually disappeared with the lee hull no longer being driven down into the seas..
All I can presume is these so called guides are set in fairly smooth sheltered water close to land where wind speeds cannot build the seas one would get 10nm further out.

I saw those reefing instructions on a Lagoon 450, it did amaze me. In my mono I reef at different windspeeds depending on how the boat feels and I can assure you they are alot lower than the lagoon guide lines.

My next boat will be a cat, my only concern is I'm not sure they are quite as forgiving as a big mono, but definitely not experienced enough to know.. The reality is now and then I screw up! Ive been caught out with to much sail up and the boat has ended up on its ear, I'm assuming the modern cat can handle my occasional screw ups? Sailors with alot less experience than me are buying them and sailing the world so this suggests they'll be forgiving with me.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by davb

I sailed a 70’ ketch-rigged cat in the Pacific some years ago. My experience suggests two categories:

1. Extreme survival conditions
2. Normal sailing

In the first category, assuming well-designed and constructed boats, I would rather take my chances in a monohull than a multihull.

In the second category, I don’t think it matters as long as the skipper is competent and understands his/her boat. A good multihull skipper knows that the boat must be sailed by the numbers: when the wind and waves are thus and so it’s time to reef. The multihull won’t send signals that she is overcanvassed. The first signal will likely be something breaks. If she is sailing on the edge of disaster already, a gust or a higher wave can capsize her. A monohull, on the other hand, will let you know that she is being pushed too hard by heeling too much.

Large cruising cats are a fairly recent phenomenon. I wouldn’t put too much stock in insurance statistics.

And yet in survival conditions in the Queens birthday storm, there were mono's being repeatedly rolled, dismasted and sunk while the cat's stayed upright.

And the comment that multihulls don't send signals... makes me wonder if you really have sailed a cat. You'd have to be remarkably insensitive to not notice when a cat is being driven hard. The speed, the heel, the sheets creaking on the winches, the sound of the wind in the sails and rig.... these are warnings long before something breaks.

Even on hobies the spray coming off the lee bow tells you the windward hull isn't carrying much load...

And seriously, large cruising cat's haven't been around long enough for insurance companies to have worked out the risk? Seriously? How long do you think it takes?

[Saleen411]

I've been caught with too much sail up....last time was down wind, hauling a$$ with 34 knot gusts in steep short period waves. Turning into the wind to reef was an interesting experience to say the least.

Any cat sailors reef going DDW?

[Saleen411]

I have alerted the Carbon Police to your outrageous and unjustifiable action, and they will now come to your house and take you off to a certified Reeducation Camp, where you will be tortured until you see the error of your ways. The science shows that there is NO ROOM for people to eat 28 oz steaks.

LMAO...HILARIOUS!

[Windcall]

My two cents novice Sailors think they are more stable. Some Crew don't like heeling. The over powering comment is spot on. Reef Early.