How many cats have flipped ?

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Yikes terrifying but hardly survival conditions right? Daggerboards mean higher performance? Waves caused capsize or breeze?

Since none of us has been there at the time of capsize we only can speculate.
In my experience this area off New Castle can get quite wild, especially near the continental shelf.
For example, a good friend of mine with lots of sailing experience had a 90 deg knock down in about of 25 knot wind in the same proximity. ..it distorted the mast but didnt break any shrouds. Thats on a 46ft yacht.
According to him the sea conditions were not what one would expect given the strength of the wind.

My own experience was similar, we had a 20 to 30kn W/SW ...heading NNE...got picked up by a wave out of nowhere and nearly pitch poled, scary.
At the time we where about 3.5 miles offshore east of Newcastle.
I think it comes down to currents and nearby land configurations. ..stay away from capes.

Like one time we rounded Cape Morton , north of Flinders Reef, SE 15 to 20 kn breeze, the sea swell increased from abot 5ft to over 25ft! Absolutely huge I could see dolphins surfing looking up into the huge swell.
30 minutes later all was back to 'normal'

[Jim Cate]

In my experience this area off New Castle can get quite wild, especially near the continental shelf.

The reported position is around 20 miles inshore of the shelf, so that's not a likely contributor to the capsize. More likely just a bigger gust at a time when the boat was at a vulnerable position on a swell or sea.

hope that in time the survivors can help us all understand what happened.

Jim

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The reported position is around 20 miles inshore of the shelf, so that's not a likely contributor to the capsize. More likely just a bigger gust at a time when the boat was at a vulnerable position on a swell or sea.

hope that in time the survivors can help us all understand what happened.

Jim

Quite a sad story all the same, anyone knows what design the cat is?

[Morph]

There is some speculation that it is a Spirited 380 designed by Craig Schionning...though this has not been confirmed yet

different designer to Jeff Schionning

[Two Skippies]

I saw a report from Weather Bureau there were 25-30kt winds from the west, and 2.5m waves from the east.
For me that would have been hell out there. They had only been out for about two hours.

[JPA Cate]

What a shame! Here's another link:


: https://www.9news.com.au/national/ne...a-54ad9c07c49c
________________

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

What a shame! Here's another link:


: https://www.9news.com.au/national/ne...a-54ad9c07c49c
________________

Page not found

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Two Skippies

I saw a report from Weather Bureau there were 25-30kt winds from the west, and 2.5m waves from the east.
For me that would have been hell out there. They had only been out for about two hours.

Do remember that in Oz, the BOM says in EVERY broadcast or bulletin "gusts may be 40% stronger than the averages stated here". That means that with a f/c of 30 knots one should be prepared for gusts of 42 knots.

25-30 is brisk but not threatening conditions for a ~40 foot cruising cat. But if set up for 25 and exposed to a 42 knot gust, things get marginal very quickly. That may or may not be what happened, but I expect that something like that will emerge as a root cause of the capsize.

Jim

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Two Skippies

I saw a report from Weather Bureau there were 25-30kt winds from the west, and 2.5m waves from the east.
For me that would have been hell out there. They had only been out for about two hours.

Unpleasant certainly, but no way should have been enough to capsize the boat. You have to think they've been carrying far too much sail for the conditions. Some of the photos do suggest quite a bit of sail visible in the water.

[44'cruisingcat]

OuR

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

25-30 is brisk but not threatening conditions for a ~40 foot cruising cat. But if set up for 25 and exposed to a 42 knot gust, things get marginal very quickly.

Jim

No, they don't. On that boat, set up for 25kts would be 2 or 3 reefs, possibly reduced headsail. In that configuration 45-50kts would be handled easily.

And in reality the boat should be configured for the gusts. So 3 reefs or no mainsail at all, and probably about 1/2 of the headsail would be enough to move the boat well.

[Morph]

Agree with 44, in that stuff you'd want to have things set up conservatively especially with the crew on board, there's no worry about speed, there's plenty of that. I'd have had 3 reefs in my boat and a semi rolled genoa confident that 40+ knots would be fine

[boatman61]

Ahh.. but therein lies the rub with cat manufacturers having crazy reefing guidelines for their boats that the inexperienced work to.. with those wind speeds a Lagoon 45's would have said full sail is okay.

[ozsailer]

Gday Boatman 61, please dont make incorrect statements than can inproperly influence people. This can be damaging to multis regardless of builder in so many way. See below for recomended sail set up by Lagoon (which is easy to source on the net) for a Lagoon 450


- From 26 to 30 knots: 1 Reef, 75% of the Genoa ; the mainsail traveler comes back to 60 cm to windward of center.
The Genoa traveler remains in place or moves slightly forward but it is adjusted so that the leech forms a propeller, the upper part dumping air out under strong gusts of wind.
- From 30 to 36 knots: 2 Reef, 60% of the Genoa ; the mainsail traveler returns to the 30 cm to windward of center, the boom is slackened to fly 50 cm leeward.
The Genoa traveler is moved slightly forward, the adjustment re- mains the same.

Greg H
Lagoon 440

[fivecapes]

Lagoon 450S
SA/D=80 ... unflippable?

Spited 380
SA/D=122
with both boards down probably even less forgiving

by comparison
Outremer 45
SA/D=95

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Lagoon 450S
SA/D=80 ... unflippable?

Spited 380
SA/D=122
with both boards down probably even less forgiving

by comparison
Outremer 45
SA/D=95

SA/D doesn't give you the stability of the boat. You need to know where the COE of is on those sails above the fulcrum, and the length of the righting arm.

Plus those figures looks wrong unless you've used some kind og weird units. The SA/D of a Lagoon 450 is 21.80