How to upRight a 57' cat

[SV Sailfish]

Originally Posted by Sailshabby

I’ve dropped my big cat (Maine Coon) numerous times and he’s always landed right side up. This ‘fake news’ crap has got to stop!

Good one!

[grantmc]

The Rose-Noelle was a classic example of a what to expect in a capsize at sea. She was the skipper's home designed and built trimaran on route between Picton and Tonga. On 4 June 1989 she capsized in a storm. The four crew set off their Epirb and waited and waited in hope until its battery went flat. They lived on the upturned hulls. The skipper made several dives in to the hulls to retrieve stores and equipment. Because the water was so cold it took a terrible toll on his body. Eventually they were able to smash a hole through the centre hull. They washed up on an island after surviving for 119 days. Of course there are books and a movie.

Isn't it because of the Rose-Noelle that many countries require an escape hatch built in to the hulls? Normally of course they're underwater hatches, but if capsized it becomes an escape hatch. But once capsized it also facilitates entry to the stores etc still within the hull for the survivors.

[DerekKelsall]

Originally Posted by ericoh88

Hi

I am shocked when I came across this youtube on the rescue of 57' catamaran.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...d&pbjreload=10

A 57' cat is a huge boat and I have never heard of big cat capsized.

Is there a way of turning the monster back up with some sort of floatation bag inflated at the top of mast that can be detached upon self righting?

I read some where in the Voyage for Mad Men, one of the sailor had such a device.

So the million dollar question is

1. How would you handle the same situation with a capsized 57' cat in the middle of nowhere?

2. Is there a self righting device for cat? maybe a bag that is kept inside the boat for such an unfortunate event, like having a life raft.

Your thoughts.

Eric

Righting and Self Righting.


We used to put a lot of thought and effort into capsize, righting and self righting. 40 years ago, I built a 36ft. Cat for client Gunther Ulrich and incorporated his very clever self righting sytem.


I had devised a basic system to right a race tri. Imagine having a sealed box cross beam under the mast, sitting at deck level. From capsized and floating on the beam, pump the bows full of water back to a bulkhead at the aft edge of the beam. The tri stands on its nose, from where it continues to rotate back to right side up with bows to pump out.


What Gunther did was to make this automatic. By sealing the saloon door, capsized she floated on the coach roof and bows. The bulkheads have to be in the right place and there must be little or no floatation in the bows. The bows were solid glass and not foam sandwich. The trials on a lake in Sandwich in Kent went to plan. We pulled the cat over using a crane, to float on her side and a truck tyre at the mast head to enable us to tow into deep water. Deflate the tyre and she went right over. Open a valve in each bow and she started to fill the bows and rotate, The clever bit is designing to keep the center of buoyancy offset from the center of gravity through-out the rotation. After the flip over from 90 degree rotation water flows out till the bows are about 25 degrees down. Pump out from there.


What would happen in big seas is not easy to imagine. Floating high on the coachroof she would probably blow back anyway.


To arrange a rightable system at the design stage is not too difficult and relatively small expense in the total budget. Yes, some compromise in layout. Things like heavy engines aft would not help. Combining air bags with the bow bulkhead arrangement pumping is my approach. Obviously challenging and much water and air to move at 57ft.


I did advertise for some time but with zero interest. We talk about it when there is a capsize but then put it out of mind.


If I was about to build a 40ft. Light weight World cruiser for myself, it would be rightable.




Happy boating.


Derek.

[SteveSadler]

I watched a 50 ft cat capsize on Maui around 1980.
The Genoa sheet got wrapped up in the prop so when they tacked in 25kts,
they couldn’t release, and went over.
When the CG arrived a local multihull captain had a plan.
They flooded the 2 large lazeretts, bridled a tow line to both bows,
Ran under the bridge deck, (now on top) and towed from the stern.
The CG captain was very good at keeping the tow line centered between the sterns, and she righted with little effort, no damage.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

I watched a 50 ft cat capsize on Maui around 1980.
The Genoa sheet got wrapped up in the prop so when they tacked in 25kts,
they couldn’t release, and went over.
When the CG arrived a local multihull captain had a plan.
They flooded the 2 large lazeretts, bridled a tow line to both bows,
Ran under the bridge deck, (now on top) and towed from the stern.
The CG captain was very good at keeping the tow line centered between the sterns, and she righted with little effort, no damage.

There was a video on CF that showed something similar. I've had a look but can't find it.

It looked really easy, from memory it was not much more than a fishing boat. (Ahhh memory, I remember that)

The aft sunk and the bows came up the boat seemed to rotate on the waterline and it all happened much faster than you would expect without drama.

[captlloyd]

Righting a cat and a tri are two different issues. I can invision righting a cat with opposing pulls from two or three powerful powerboats plus utilizing inflatable lifting bags and some hefty pumps for dewatering. You would only need to slowly dewater the hull being lifted as the other hull would be working in your favor as an opposing weight. Distance to shore, sea conditions, costs, all factors in success. The other post about righting a tri seems very feasible to me.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Righting a cat and a tri are two different issues. I can invision righting a cat with opposing pulls from two or three powerful powerboats plus utilizing inflatable lifting bags and some hefty pumps for dewatering. You would only need to slowly dewater the hull being lifted as the other hull would be working in your favor as an opposing weight. Distance to shore, sea conditions, costs, all factors in success. The other post about righting a tri seems very feasible to me.

The video showed they turned it on the other axis. i.e. front to back not side to side. Front to back meant you don't need much force as your not doing any lifting just rotating and the water runs along the hulls to maintain bouyancy at waterlevel and the sails, if they are up, don't fill with water as it rotates.

[rob denney]

Most capsizes occur because the sheets cannot be eased fast or far enough due to multi part sheet systems, winch foul ups and stays. Unstayed rigs allow sheet releases that, at a preset angle of heel or pitch totally and instantly depower the rig regardless of wind direction and whether the sheet is on a winch, cleated or wrapped around the crew's leg.

Inversion makes righting (and surviving) much more difficult. A rig that prevents the boat going past 90 degrees (masthead bags on cats and tris don't) and the correct location of inlets and buoyancy allows self righting without any crew input at all. see The “Bucket List” Prototype Building Blog – Harryproa for a crude self righting model.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

The video showed they turned it on the other axis. i.e. front to back not side to side. Front to back meant you don't need much force as your not doing any lifting just rotating and the water runs along the hulls to maintain bouyancy at waterlevel and the sails, if they are up, don't fill with water as it rotates.

I believe you are referring to a tri. A tri, due to its very wide beam would be difficult if not impossible to turn on its beam. Not so with a cat.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

I believe you are referring to a tri. A tri, due to its very wide beam would be difficult if not impossible to turn on its beam. Not so with a cat.

Coastal racing cats flip over relatively regularly here and there is a standard way of flipping them back upright. It is bows over sterns using a long tow rope led from the bows along the bridgedeck and out past the sterns. Then the tow boat pulls aft at a few knots speed. The sugar scoops or squared off sterns provide resistance to the movement and dig deep, which lifts the bows. Now the tow rope pulls the bows up and aft until the boat stands on it’s sterns and slaps down. Often not even all that wet inside, though you can certainly tell which floor boards and hatches didn’t stay in place.

This is the only way to recover a large cat without further risking it’s rig.

I’ve even self-righted a Hobie 16 this way, but the distance and speed of the bows coming down was dangerous as hell. The narrow Hobie hulls go under very easily and it seemed to take less effort once we got the sterns about a metre under. Sails stream fore and aft and don’t work against you as they do with a side righting.

[44'cruisingcat]

AFAIK, outside of extreme race boats, only one 57 foot cat has ever been capsized, so knowing how to right one isn't really required knowledge.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

AFAIK, outside of extreme race boats, only one 57 foot cat has ever been capsized, so knowing how to right one isn't really required knowledge.

A significant percentage of the Chris White Atlantic 57 cats ever made, have gone over. At least two, maybe three of them. Leopard, Anna, wasn't there one other?

At one time I was seriously considering one of these as my next boat. For sailing in windy latitudes I would simply have it built with a smaller rig.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

AFAIK, outside of extreme race boats, only one 57 foot cat has ever been capsized, so knowing how to right one isn't really required knowledge.

Unless you own one :-)

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A significant percentage of the Chris White Atlantic 57 cats ever made, have gone over. At least two, maybe three of them. Leopard, Anna, wasn't there one other?

At one time I was seriously considering one of these as my next boat. For sailing in windy latitudes I would simply have it built with a smaller rig.

I think the Atlantics just had a run of bad luck and nothing inherently wrong with the design. The interior helm station may remove a bit of environmental awareness, but I’m not sure that’s much worse than the usual interior watchkeeping that seems to be commonly practiced on cats (one negative for having a salon on the same level as the cockpit)?

You can also get a lighter boat that only needs a smaller rig. Plus you can always reef down early. We find on coastal passages we’ll follow or even exceed the reefing plan just to have some fun, but offshore we’re one or two reefs ahead of the plan and still smoking along.

Easily driven boats, mono or cat or tri, are a delight to sail, but at the price of leaving some appliances and toys ashore.

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by Franziska

There are two options.

When weather is calm again, tow inverted to next port and use one or two big mobile cranes.
It's a slow process, as the water needs to drain along the way.
Thats the way its done on the huge ORMA multihull raceboats, but they tend to be light and have big money.

Option two, one can try end over end. With the help of a tug/big powerboat on location. Floatation bags and parachute anchors may help. Usually not attached to the rigging though.

Transverse righting will most lightly cause substantial further damage.
In both cases the rig will most lightly not survive.

My rig was designed to fail BEFORE a capsize would occur. Not a pleasant thought, waiting for rescue in the cold, toxic waters of an inverted cat, but in survival conditions likely to cause a flip, I can't imagine righting a big cat at sea.