Hydrovane on a Cat

[Qajjenxz]

Hi, we recently installed a Hydrovane on our Lipari 41, to use it we need to lock the wheel at the helm station , but we are unable to lock the wheel as there is no mechanism for locking the wheel on a Lipari, I have spoken to FP, & they confirm that the helm cannot be locked.

I can only think of tying the wheel to a winch to lock it in some sort of fashion, would anyone one else have any other ideas as we are about to set off on a Atlantic circuit

Many thanks in advance

[BigBeakie]

How is your tiller arm arrangement? Can you drill a hole through the tiller arm and into the rudder shelf, then drop a beefy pin through with a lanyard to pull it out quickly if needed? You may need a screw in inspection port in your cockpit floor to get to the tiller arm?


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[Jim Cate]

I don't know anything about the steering dynamics in cats, but my experience with aux rudder vanes in monohulls is that one locks the main rudder in different positions under different sailing conditions. If that is also true in cats, a simple pin type lock won't do... adjustment is required.

I've seen DIY wheel brakes on a few boats over the years. You might be able to mount a disk brake set from a bicycle behind the wheel and use that to lock it in position.

I'm sure that there will be interest in your results, so please let us know how you address the issue.

Jim

[GILow]

What am I missing? Just use a length of light line made fast to a spoke on the wheel then to two handy cleats. That’s all I do.

[LoudMusic]

My FP also does not have a wheel lock. I've had others comment that this seems very odd. It's rather simple to just tie it off, but it is important to be able to quickly release it as well.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

My FP also does not have a wheel lock. I've had others comment that this seems very odd. It's rather simple to just tie it off, but it is important to be able to quickly release it as well.

This is true, plus in the case of fine tuning the main rudder position for balance with the aux rudder vane, small adjustments are important, and tying off the wheel isn't all that accurate, so a brake type lock would be helpful.

Jim

[GILow]

Jim,

I use this setup on my boat, and with a good, light, non-stretch line it is possible to set the wheel with quite a bit of precision.

Possibly a little more fiddly than the average wheel brake, but one of those I met on an old Adams 40 had so much lash in it that this setup may be more precise.

I'm helping a friend install a Hydrovane on his Duncanson 36 on Monday, and I have suggested he try this approach before forking out for a wheel brake.

Matt

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by GILow

Jim,

I use this setup on my boat, and with a good, light, non-stretch line it is possible to set the wheel with quite a bit of precision.

Possibly a little more fiddly than the average wheel brake, but one of those I met on an old Adams 40 had so much lash in it that this setup may be more precise.

I'm helping a friend install a Hydrovane on his Duncanson 36 on Monday, and I have suggested he try this approach before forking out for a wheel brake.

Matt

Matt, the amount of adjustment and the degree of precision will vary considerably between different boats. Your lashing scheme may well work for you or for the Duncanson, or it may be frustrating to live with. Try it and see, and if it works, cool!

Jim

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Matt, the amount of adjustment and the degree of precision will vary considerably between different boats. Your lashing scheme may well work for you or for the Duncanson, or it may be frustrating to live with. Try it and see, and if it works, cool!



Jim

I do agree, my cockpit and wheel layout are such that it is very easy, but don’t get me wrong, if I could afford a proper wheel brake setup I’d install it in a flash.

It’s on my list to consider once I move aboard. I’ve decided I will bring a welder with me, so I bought a little TIG which is less than 1/4 of the size and weight of the MIG. And the D size Argon bottles are easy enough to store.

But for the OP, I reckon it is worth a try first.

[Qajjenxz]

Hi , firstly many thanks for all your comments & suggestions, they are very much appreciated.

I went along the route the Big Beakie suggested, where the arm of the tie rod that joins the two rudders meets the auto pilot arm, there are a number of holes already drilled through the metal arm , we have simply drilled a hole in the timber shelf below, & inserted a metal ring, now we can just drop a pointed bolt through the tie rod arm into the metal ring inserted into the timer shelf.

Almost exactly the same on the other rudder, now means that we are securing both rudders very securely.

This was all done within the engine compartments , so no need for any inspection ports to gain access.

We had thought of GIlow idea of just tying off a line either to cleats or winches, but it was not really practical & also was worried about any big seas moving the rudders & bending the S/Steel tubes of the wheel.

Many thanks again everyone 👍

[fcftampa]

How's the emergency removal of the locking bolt going to be?

[Qajjenxz]

Fcftampa , we have a round ring attached to the bolt , with a small line attached & just pull the locking bolt out in a emergency.
It seems to work ok

[Paul Howard]

I did a circumnavigation of the world on a monohull using a Hydrovane self-steering gear.
I loved the gear, worked very well in light and heavy airs, upwind, down wind, etc.
But one must be able to slightly alter the main rudder(s) settings to bias the helm, and also willing to change the sail area and settings of sheets to balance the rig.
My boat (self built) had a tiller, not a wheel.

I used a light line from each side of the cockpit to the tiller, with each side looped around a lifeline stantion and tied back on itself with a rolling hitch. Thus one could slightly slacken one side and tighten the other side with ease.

Disconnecting was easily done by giving slack in both the lines by sliding the rolling hitch along the line.
I am now a catamaran sailor and have not sailed a catamaran with a windvane, but you may need to reef early to keep to slower displacement speeds to allow the apparent wind to work the vane, especially in down wind conditions.

Angling the vane in light winds does help, as does the different ratio settings for the the paddle rudder.
It took me a thousand miles or so to get the hang of it, setting vane, rudder bias and sail balancing, but well worth the effort.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Qajjenxz

We had thought of GIlow idea of just tying off a line either to cleats or winches, but it was not really practical & also was worried about any big seas moving the rudders & bending the S/Steel tubes of the wheel.

Given the mechanical advantage of the wheel, there’s no way the spokes should bend. On the other hand, the lack of mechanical advantage on the connecting rod means the force on that pin could be very significant. I’m not sure the pin release idea is going to work well if there is lot of force being exerted on the pin at the time. It sounds very dangerous to me.

But I get it with the line idea being a problem if the wheel is not placed in a way that makes running the lines practical.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

My FP also does not have a wheel lock. I've had others comment that this seems very odd. It's rather simple to just tie it off, but it is important to be able to quickly release it as well.

A couple of cam cleats might be the ticket?