I think we settled on a Gemini, change my mind

[Gilligan8]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

It's the 422 that's a centre-cockpit, isn't it? Hard to beat that aft-cabin for spaciousness.

You are correct but the 424 still has a decent aft cabin layout that the wife approves of. LOL

Sorry for that misstatement/confusion.

[tomfl]

Not trying to talk you out of, or in to, either the cat or mono; just noting they are very different boats. Both have pros and cons but you need to get your wife on both for a sail and sleep on for a night (even at a dock) to fully understand how different they are.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Junglebike

Much wider beam on the Flica though (19' vs 14') - so much more space and stability but no fitting into standard marina slips.

How big is the master berth in the Gemini out of curiosity? Always seemed like an insane amount of space for a 33' boat. Similar to a 45-50' monohull really. Amazing packaging job with just the 14' of beam.

Gem master is a queen

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Not trying to talk you out of, or in to, either the cat or mono; just noting they are very different boats. Both have pros and cons but you need to get your wife on both for a sail and sleep on for a night (even at a dock) to fully understand how different they are.

Good points, and also useful to note you need to take a good hard assessment about how much time you'll be on board, and how much time you'll devote to specific activities while on board. From what I'm reading this is going to be a liveaboard situation for your wife, with you and daughter visiting weekends, with occasional sailing. Most liveaboards do a lot less sailing than staying alongside/at anchor; and the roles, meals, domestic chores, etc all change completely when sailing - since this is such a small amount of the time spent aboard, I recommend focussing on the alongside living arrangements.

Some respondents have implied mono's are "cave-like", but I disagree. Yes the bridgedeck area in a cat can be huge, bright and airy, but the rest of the boat is basically in tunnels - I believe the Gemini's all have the galley down in a hull, and while not as 'tunnel-like' as many cat's does put the cook away from the action in the living room - helping the kid with homework, supervision screen time, etc. Most of the mono's in the size/price range you would be looking at, will be quite spacious in the main living space - more of an open-concept with galley next to the saloon (dining/living room).

We started looking at cats, including the Gemini, but just found with a mono we got more boat for the money. As Tomfl said, they both have pro's and con's - it's up to you to figure out what will best work for you.

[Junglebike]

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/85327

This looks like it would work for the OP

[Gilligan8]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Good points, and also useful to note you need to take a good hard assessment about how much time you'll be on board, and how much time you'll devote to specific activities while on board. From what I'm reading this is going to be a liveaboard situation for your wife, with you and daughter visiting weekends, with occasional sailing. Most liveaboards do a lot less sailing than staying alongside/at anchor; and the roles, meals, domestic chores, etc all change completely when sailing - since this is such a small amount of the time spent aboard, I recommend focussing on the alongside living arrangements.

Some respondents have implied mono's are "cave-like", but I disagree. Yes the bridgedeck area in a cat can be huge, bright and airy, but the rest of the boat is basically in tunnels - I believe the Gemini's all have the galley down in a hull, and while not as 'tunnel-like' as many cat's does put the cook away from the action in the living room - helping the kid with homework, supervision screen time, etc. Most of the mono's in the size/price range you would be looking at, will be quite spacious in the main living space - more of an open-concept with galley next to the saloon (dining/living room).

We started looking at cats, including the Gemini, but just found with a mono we got more boat for the money. As Tomfl said, they both have pro's and con's - it's up to you to figure out what will best work for you.

Our current homes both have the kitchens away from the activity so either boat makes that situation actually better.

But excellent points that I do make to her about Cat vs Mono (salon is big, but sleeping is essentially a small mono... except in the Gemini and a few others).

[Gilligan8]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Not trying to talk you out of, or in to, either the cat or mono; just noting they are very different boats. Both have pros and cons but you need to get your wife on both for a sail and sleep on for a night (even at a dock) to fully understand how different they are.

Yeah, this corona situation has us just surfing and surfing with no ability to jump on anything to check it out.

My buddy has a Hunter 28.5 that I'm sure he'd let us spend the night in, but it's on the hard right now.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Some respondents have implied mono's are "cave-like", but I disagree. Yes the bridgedeck area in a cat can be huge, bright and airy, but the rest of the boat is basically in tunnels - I believe the Gemini's all have the galley down in a hull, and while not as 'tunnel-like' as many cat's does put the cook away from the action in the living room - helping the kid with homework, supervision screen time, etc.

I never understood the concern about galley down in all the years we lived on a Gem. The misses is only 5ft and never any issue of feeling isolated. She could easily reach the dinnet table standing at the stove.

Then we bought a Catalac more recently and now understand the issue. Similar size cat but much higher bridge deck leaving her more isolated and it's more hassle to bring food up to the table.

Galley down is simply a non-issue on a Gem. Also totally not cave like as you have a 6ft long eye level window the length of the galley.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

She could easily reach the dinnet table standing at the stove.

Just how long were her arms?
Seriously, I'm not knocking Gemini's or really any cat per se. I just say that there are trade-offs in choosing any type of boat and its particular lay-out. A critical look at the personal "quirks" of the people concerned before purchase makes the difference between enjoying or enduring the boat. For example the master stateroom in the Gem has a lot going for it - queensize bed, large window, ample storage, standing room to change in; but it also has some downsides - large window (for those who need darkness to sleep), port-side occupant has some manoeuvring to exit the bed if the stbd side is still occupied, and if one needs to visit the head at night it's a bit of a trek. It pays to make a pros and cons list for any of the boats being considered.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Just how long were her arms?
Seriously, I'm not knocking Gemini's or really any cat per se. I just say that there are trade-offs in choosing any type of boat and its particular lay-out. A critical look at the personal "quirks" of the people concerned before purchase makes the difference between enjoying or enduring the boat. For example the master stateroom in the Gem has a lot going for it - queensize bed, large window, ample storage, standing room to change in; but it also has some downsides - large window (for those who need darkness to sleep), port-side occupant has some manoeuvring to exit the bed if the stbd side is still occupied, and if one needs to visit the head at night it's a bit of a trek. It pays to make a pros and cons list for any of the boats being considered.

Proportional to her height... galley down is simply not the issue it is on some larger cats.

Yes, you have to climb over is you are sleeping to port. I always enjoyed that but some might not. We had an interior blackout cover along with blinds on the side windows so brightness usually wasn't an issue.

Night time walk to the head is easier than it sounds. There aren't big open spaces, so we called it monkey walking as there were handholds the entire way. We didn't even turn the lights on because after a bit you knew the way by feel.

No she's not perfect but no boat is.

[breeeznalong]

I have sailed — glad we don’t own — extensively on MC 105 for 4 years as my father-in-law bought a 2004. Myself, I am a Catalina 36 owner and LOVE it! I could go thru the many positives I feel the Gem offers but I think as a potential buyer you may be interested in more of the negatives:
1. If it was built in the Hunter factory I think it’s just one build issue after another. Substandard rigging and inferior interior amenities. Flooring has a lot of flex and galley countertops will warp.
2. Guess those people who love the master cabin do not mind the constant climbing over for the inside sleeper to get out of berth.
3. I’m using the master berth, it’s up and over a partner to get out, then down a step to fooor level, thru galley, up to main salon, down port side to head — UGH!!!!
4. After cabins are tight for large person
5. Parts for outdrive are expensive and difficult to find.

Just my 2 cents

[Cpt Mark]

I looked at these a lot. Decided not for me.

The location of the batteries is just plain stupid. AGM's or LiFePO4 are required as dragging them out of the locker to check water is not going to happen.

Walking around a catamaran on the deck is a huge asset and the Gems have no room to get around the stays. This is important for those that have mobility issues for sure but the owner who pointed it out to me was young, fit and said it was a huge design error.

[tekdiver]

Originally Posted by Tom and Maje

I liked that a lot too, but the Gemini is not an bluewater sailboat. We looked at them fairly seriously, and we were told that unless you plan to buy another boat later on, you will be stuck coastal cruising.

Maje

LOL you say that like its a bad thing? Not all of us are ever going to be ocean crosser

[ljones]

Suggest looking for a Victory 35, a real blue water cat with excellent build quality and performance.

[mikedefieslife]

Galley down on something like a gemini or a prout is nothing like galley down on say a lagoon. On a lagoon or modern cat you normally cannot see into the hulls from the saloon apart the small entrance.

On older cats, the hulls and saloon are all open as one. The step down into the hulls is barely knee height. You can easily cook and reach the saloon table, likewise you can pass drinking or whatever into the cockpit too. You aren't in the dark hole you are in on modern cat designs.