If you could pick anything, what would you choose?

[Blue Skye]

Nice video. Would anyone here consider the Outremer to be on the edge or is that safe fast sailing?

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by Blue Skye

Nice video. Would anyone here consider the Outremer to be on the edge or is that safe fast sailing?

It looks to me like a wind speed of over 25 knots and they are at the limit of safe sailing, with the waves present I would have put in a reef , the nice thing is it would have hardly slowed them down but this is better for a good video clip.

[jzk]

Originally Posted by Blue Skye

Nice video. Would anyone here consider the Outremer to be on the edge or is that safe fast sailing?

I don't think there is anything unsafe about that. However, one note about Outremer is that being solid fiberglass, it isn't the lightest boat out there. Sure it will sing like this when completely stripped and empty, but load it down and it is a whole different game.

If I am not mistaken, the Chris White designs are cored (at least the ones I have looked into). Very strong and much lighter.

[ldrhawke]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

It looks to me like a wind speed of over 25 knots and they are at the limit of safe sailing, with the waves present I would have put in a reef , the nice thing is it would have hardly slowed them down but this is better for a good video clip.

I think it has the first reef in. I would hate to have to go up to the mast at that speed to put in a second reef. Under these conditions the true advantage and safety of a deep forward cockpit is obvious, even it gets a little wet.

[ldrhawke]

Originally Posted by jzk

I don't think there is anything unsafe about that. However, one note about Outremer is that being solid fiberglass, it isn't the lightest boat out there. Sure it will sing like this when completely stripped and empty, but load it down and it is a whole different game.

If I am not mistaken, the Chris White designs are cored (at least the ones I have looked into). Very strong and much lighter.

From the data I've collected, the same length Outremer is just as light as an Atlantic and maybe lighter in the light racing versions. I think the difference is the Outremer has narrower/shallower hulls than the same length Atlantic to reduce weight and maintain speed. For all intense purpose the Outremer simply lengthens the hull between a 45 to 55 foot boat and has basically the same cabin in all except the light version.

I'm not knocking Outremers. I think they have an outstanding safety record and are great cats; especially when you take into account all the racing they do. I personally think the Atlantic is compromised a little more toward the cruising side than an Outremer, with it's wider hulls, greater bridge deck clearance and higher load carrying capability; which suits my imaginary needs better.

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

From the data I've collected, the same length Outremer is just as light as an Atlantic and maybe lighter in the light racing versions. I think the difference is the Outremer has narrower hulls than the same length Atlantic to reduce weight and maintain speed. For all intense purpose the Outremer simply lengthens the hull between a 45 to 55 foot boat and has basically the same cabin in all except the light version.

You also need to compare volume. the Outremers are really skinny down in the hulls. On the 42, you don't even get a decent double bunk. I'm a big man at 280 lbs. and moving around down below is a bit clastrauphobic, compared with any other 42 footer I've been on. They are also very basic (old fashioned) and a bit dated, both inside and out. I had my heart set on a 42 based on the pictures, but it was a big let down for me to go on board. I guess I expected a bit more room than on my present 35 footer.

They also went belly up last year, but apparently are up and running again. It will be interesting to see where the new owners take the yard. Gerard Danson will be a hard act to follow. They have a great reputation as fast cruisers, and an almost cult-like following.

I agree with the negatives about blunt bows. The only positive is that they are easier to fender off when needed. Alot of the french designs have these blunt bows, as it enables them to save in building. They can get in there with a roller. Saves a forward bulkhead and less fairing later as well.

Regards

Alan

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

This is the main reason for us to lenghten the bow and make the entry finer. Who wants to be wet all the time?
Nice clip of the Outremer

Will this mean that you can lose the protrusions both fore and aft between the hulls?

Alan

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

I think it has the first reef in. I would hate to have to go up to the mast at that speed to put in a second reef. Under these conditions the true advantage and safety of a deep forward cockpit is obvious, even it gets a little wet.

The nice thing is that with a well designed sailplan and single line reefing you do not have to go forward but you can put in 1 or 2 reefs from the cockpit in 30 seconds single handed.
It works fabulous
Greetings
Gideon

[ldrhawke]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

You also need to compare volume. the Outremers are really skinny down in the hulls. On the 42, you don't even get a decent double bunk. I'm a big man at 280 lbs. and moving around down below is a bit clastrauphobic, compared with any other 42 footer I've been on. They are also very basic (old fashioned) and a bit dated, both inside and out. I had my heart set on a 42 based on the pictures, but it was a big let down for me to go on board. I guess I expected a bit more room than on my present 35 footer.

They also went belly up last year, but apparently are up and running again. It will be interesting to see where the new owners take the yard. Gerard Danson will be a hard act to follow. They have a great reputation as fast cruisers, and an almost cult-like following.

I agree with the negatives about blunt bows. The only positive is that they are easier to fender off when needed. Alot of the french designs have these blunt bows, as it enables them to save in building. They can get in there with a roller. Saves a forward bulkhead and less fairing later as well.

Regards

Alan

With you size and weight, I don't think Chris White would allow you to buy an Atlantic 42', you'd probably have to move up to an Atlantic 48'. He is the most catamaran weight conscience builder you will ever meet. The reason the Atlantic 55' evolved into an Atlantic 57' was because couldn't stand the thought of one owner insisting on adding the weight of an AC unit, and the 55' sitting deeper in the water. So he added 2 more feet to bring it back the original level.

He is probably the most non compromising performance oriented cruising catamaran designer you will ever meet. I think he weighs every piece of material going into one of his cats on a mail scale. Which is the reasons his designs perform so well in the real world of sailing. My kinda designer.

[ldrhawke]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

Will this mean that you can lose the protrusions both fore and aft between the hulls?

Alan

You can eliminate any protrusion, but many designers don't want to give up the added inside volume they give. I think it is probably which design group, the interior or hull designers carry more weight in the company. In Chris Whites case he is responsible for both, and is non-compromising with his hull design performance as being the most important aspect of his Atlantic cats.

You are not going to find a cleaner underside than those of Atlantic cats in any size. The under side of the Atlantic 48'.

[jzk]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

From the data I've collected, the same length Outremer is just as light as an Atlantic and maybe lighter in the light racing versions. I think the difference is the Outremer has narrower/shallower hulls than the same length Atlantic to reduce weight and maintain speed.

I am a fan of Outremer, but just keep in mind that those skinny hulls aren't going to carry much cargo. And, beware of manufacturers stated weights.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

I think it has the first reef in. I would hate to have to go up to the mast at that speed to put in a second reef. Under these conditions the true advantage and safety of a deep forward cockpit is obvious, even it gets a little wet.

I am intrested in cruising.
I think I would just slow down a bit and then reef.
Am I missing something in the "excitement of cruising"?

[schoonerdog]

I think I would personally choose an aft cockpit, simply because I think it would be human nature to set the sails and then go back inside in poor weather to avoid the spray and the completely exposed position. In sudden gusts, you'd want to be right by the main sheet to release it quickly to prevent a capsize and from inside, you might not be able to react quick enough. In an aft cockpit boat with a sizable enclosure I would stay at the helm, with the main sheet within reach. I wouldn't be anywhere near as exposed as a center cockpit design, a bit more comfortable, and I wouldn't have as nice and tempting of an interior helm. . At anchor, your spend a lot of time in your cockpit. It's nice to have a huge 8 x 14 ft spot as an aft veranda when down in warm climates. I do really like the Atlantics galley down though, must have 3 times the space of a galley up

Some uncompromising builders such as shuttleworth, atlantic, african cats, gunboat all make the best boats. Atlantic and Shuttleworth though depend upon the builder you've choosen I believe as to the final quality. I've seen shuttleworths that were begun well, but ran out of money in the end.

I've got to admit that african cats seems to make the most changes of any boat I've seen, constantly adjusting the materials, layouts, molds to tweak a little bit more performance with each successive boat. Most manufacturers lay the mold and then really do little else for the next 15 years except change the layout a little bit or extend the transom.

All of these boats are dreamboats, the Atlantic is just beautiful. It's sort of like saying you'd prefer one supermodel vs another because you like green eyes instead of blue.

[ldrhawke]

Originally Posted by Therapy

I am intrested in cruising.
I think I would just slow down a bit and then reef.
Am I missing something in the "excitement of cruising"?

You are absolutely correct. All the Outremer had to do in the video shown was point up into the wind.

I was really trying to make a point about sailing in rough seas at times that when even when pointing up that the wind and waves are battering you, and make it dangerous when moving around on the deck of a boat to change head sails or reef the main sails, and when you do not have all the halyards and reef lines led back to the cockpit.

Like a lot of you I've been out in 50 ft seas and 80 mph winds at night that required dropping and securing all sails, even storm sails. It's no fun moving around the deck under these conditions. I just think the forward cockpit of the Atlantic makes sense for open ocean cruising.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog;

All of these boats are dreamboats, the Atlantic is just beautiful. It's sort of like saying you'd prefer one supermodel vs another because you like green eyes instead of blue.

I will probably never have the money for one but I am into the porn everyday.

Boat that is!