Irma and the local boat market

[safariKY]

I paid $400,000 for a beautiful (probably lost now) monohull. It has all the comfort creatures, including gen/air. Just because boat building is mostly mass produced these days and are fiberglass, does not mean they lack quality. Clorox bottle metaphor always sounded insulting to me. Anyway, guess I'm a little sensitive since I have no idea if my "chlorox bottle" survived.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

...
So from a charter boat, its going to be very, very nice very soon.
...
The exact same people who bought those boats in the first place, will buy new with insurance settlements. Insurance settlements happen, and they happen quickly.

That sounds incredibly optimistic. If so, I'll be watching salvage market - see what it will bring.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by TheNomadTrip

I didn't even know $30K would get you into a boat. From what I've seen it definitely doesn't get you into anything that I consider a boat.

Joking right? Or is it not a boat if not sized like a condo?

For reference my boat was far north of that and has Ac, genset, creature comforts etc. but my first boat was under 30K and sunsets looked same and the bunks were equally comfortable


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Joking right? Or is it not a boat if not sized like a condo?

For reference my boat was far north of that and has Ac, genset, creature comforts etc. but my first boat was under 30K and sunsets looked same and the bunks were equally comfortable


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

I'll second that. Our current boat is "nicer" but our previous boat, at 1/4 the cost and well under $30K, was just as fun. Our slip is between an old steel hull that's probably not worth $10K and a fairly new 80 footer.....probably a $350K boat. We all three drink beer at the same rate, play cornhole on the dock, and go fishing together. Our kids/grandkids all play together. The only huge difference I see in the three of us is, the $10K boat family is on the water at least 4 days a week, 52 weeks a year. The rest of us are too caught up with work and paying for bigger boats to have that much fun.

[TheNomadTrip]

Originally Posted by Fence Man

I'll second that. Our current boat is "nicer" but our previous boat, at 1/4 the cost and well under $30K, was just as fun. Our slip is between an old steel hull that's probably not worth $10K and a fairly new 80 footer.....probably a $350K boat. We all three drink beer at the same rate, play cornhole on the dock, and go fishing together. Our kids/grandkids all play together. The only huge difference I see in the three of us is, the $10K boat family is on the water at least 4 days a week, 52 weeks a year. The rest of us are too caught up with work and paying for bigger boats to have that much fun.

I get what you're getting at.

I live on the boat 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We sometimes charter. I came into this thread explaining what my boat was (a Lagoon 380) and that I would like to add 5-10 foot of waterline (i.e. - upgrade).

Let me explain what $30K get's you when you're in the market for a 45-48 foot multihull - a never-ending project that will break your heart, your body, and your wallet.

I'm not saying you can't buy a boat for $30K. Please do, there are plenty out there and many people enjoy them. But when you come into the multihull section of this forum and talk about buying boats for $30K - it's safe to assume you're in the wrong section or you're talking about holes in the water that will eat everything you throw at them.

Entiendes?

[SV Windrush II]

Originally Posted by TheNomadTrip

I'm not saying you can't buy a boat for $30K. Please do, there are plenty out there and many people enjoy them. But when you come into the multihull section of this forum and talk about buying boats for $30K - it's safe to assume you're in the wrong section or you're talking about holes in the water that will eat everything you throw at them.

Entiendes?

Ooohhh man you just described my boat and its a monohull!! hahaha

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by TheNomadTrip

I get what you're getting at.

I live on the boat 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We sometimes charter. I came into this thread explaining what my boat was (a Lagoon 380) and that I would like to add 5-10 foot of waterline (i.e. - upgrade).

Let me explain what $30K get's you when you're in the market for a 45-48 foot multihull - a never-ending project that will break your heart, your body, and your wallet.

I'm not saying you can't buy a boat for $30K. Please do, there are plenty out there and many people enjoy them. But when you come into the multihull section of this forum and talk about buying boats for $30K - it's safe to assume you're in the wrong section or you're talking about holes in the water that will eat everything you throw at them.

Entiendes?

I absolutely get your side of it. The perfect storm damaged boat, for me, would be dismasted and bow down with undamaged engines, that I would assume would still be near a six figure purchase. Motor it to within a hundred miles of home and get to work. I am very hopeful that our next boat will be a cat in the $300K range once the work is done, so I certainly understand your point of view with the exception of the anything under $30k is not really a boat bit. There are plenty of people having more fun than me on a $30k boat, but the question is could I have as much fun as they are if I (family) was on the same boat? I'm with you on the trading up with a little bit of sweat equity. That's how we continue to upgrade our boats, and how we plan on doing the next one.....no matter how bad an idea it is.

Entiendo, mi amigo.

[TheNomadTrip]

Finally had a good day of wind today, did some sailing and caught tuna. Sushi.

Had time to ponder.

Here's my official guess, I'm not a prophet - just prefer to keep myself honest:

• 0-6 months out - things are batsh*t (no guess)
• 6-12 months out - used market is short on supply, minor increase in well-maintained boats, new boats are very very tight, nearly new boats are in between these two groups (especially cats, I believe - people prefer chartering cats in my experience)
• 12-36 months - increase in appreciation for the aforementioned groups increases until everything hits a relative equilibrium, which will take time

Line of reasoning is decrease in supply, and people forget things within 12 months. What is forgotten in 12 is ancient history in 24.

-N

[SDChristian]

Which insurance company would everyone think covers the most boats in this disaster?

[Falbala60]

Would bid on Lloyds !

[Skeezix]

As to how this season affects insurance going forward: Those companies are in it for the long haul ... Like casinos. Correct me if wrong, but haven't they had a pretty calm run of years lately?

If any weather affects rate, it will be those companies' calculations on climate change. Right now the effects on hurricane intensity are not known. But surely the companies already are figuring on effects of sea level rise.

They know full well that humans are irresistibly drawn to the surge zone like lemmings are drawn to the cliffs. And they will continue to charge the necessary tolls.

[rabbi]

I bet insurance companies won't be too badly affected. Some large re-insurance stocks have made good 4+% just today.

But of course insurance companies will make it harder/ more expensive to get coverage for named storms in affected areas and seasons.
When we cruised the Caribbean in 2012 my insurance was already 3 times the cost compared to European coastal waters including the Mediterranean. And it did not cover damage or loss by named storms during hurricane season.

But this will mostly affect the charter owners, as private boaters just move out of the way with the season.

And I don't think we have to feel sorry for (most) covered charter owners, as its just a business. Would you feel sorry for someone owning a rental car?
Loss of the charter vehicle is just another risk, and higher insurance premium are just another cost factor.
But I do feel sorry for those private owners who lost their dreams.

[John_Trusty]

To an insurance company, risk is their business and they treat it like Walmart treats socks and trash cans - just another inventory item. Insurance companies that you can name (Lloyds, Geico, etc.) are just the retail operation. They do not retain all of that risk, but sell it on to re-insurance companies in bulk. The risk on a given lost sailboat (tears appropriately shed over someone's lost dream) is split two dozen ways, and a single check is given to the owner. No single company pays the total loss.

As a side note, a single hurricane is not predictable (Miami or Tampa?), but "hurricanes" over a ten- or twenty-year period are regular as clockwork. They occur semi-frequently and hit the same few places. These companies employ very smart people to estimate the chance of a given boat getting destroyed on-average in a particular year, and they set their rates accordingly. No one at an insurance company will be surprised that a hurricane hit, only that it hit these particular locations on this particular year. They expected to send out checks, the only surprise was the mailing addresses. Do not feel sorry or concerned for them, they were waiting for this.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

People get hit just crossing the street....does that stop you from ever walking across a street? Storms happen....so does life. Adjust, shop for insurance, take whatever corrective measures feel "right" for you...but don't stop living! Come on...get real! We've kept our boat in Asia (12 years in the Philippines-and they get really big typhoons), in the Medd, and now 3 seasons in the Caribbean. We deliberately looked for storm safety considerations and facilities before we picked the marina we chose to leave our boat for the storm "season" over the last 3 years. A direct hit.....well, stuff happens. But take reasonable precautions, shop for insurance to mitigate the risks, and enjoy. But don't stop living! PS...our boat survived Irma without issue, up on the hard, stands chained together, strapped down to massive buried concrete beams, well above and removed from the bay, protected by mangroves, inside a chainlink fence that's locked and guarded 7/24, with insurance, in Puerto Rico.

I agree. We pay for a special rider to our insurance company each year that extends out our cruising area into the hurricane zone during hurricane season. We need to spend 50% of our time in a "designated location" of our choosing but after that we are free to roam where we care. Our coverage is very good.

The only thing is the stress!

However, remember all those cruising boats that sank in Sandy up in New York, which is way way outside the hurricane zone. Or during Matthew, also way outside the hurricane zone. Geography doesn't guarantee an outcome.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

To an insurance company, risk is their business and they treat it like Walmart treats socks and trash cans - just another inventory item. Insurance companies that you can name (Lloyds, Geico, etc.) are just the retail operation. They do not retain all of that risk, but sell it on to re-insurance companies in bulk. The risk on a given lost sailboat (tears appropriately shed over someone's lost dream) is split two dozen ways, and a single check is given to the owner. No single company pays the total loss.

As a side note, a single hurricane is not predictable (Miami or Tampa?), but "hurricanes" over a ten- or twenty-year period are regular as clockwork. They occur semi-frequently and hit the same few places. These companies employ very smart people to estimate the chance of a given boat getting destroyed on-average in a particular year, and they set their rates accordingly. No one at an insurance company will be surprised that a hurricane hit, only that it hit these particular locations on this particular year. They expected to send out checks, the only surprise was the mailing addresses. Do not feel sorry or concerned for them, they were waiting for this.

Good post, John! Nice to see some informed and non-emotional information on the insurance process. One hopes that their professionalism extends to getting the checks out in a timely fashion.

Jim