Is buying a Starter Boat a dumb idea?

[Tanqueray]

I don’t think buying a starter boat is dumb, but you can do a lot of research and test sails before buying that first boat. And buying a starter boat may be dumb if you:
- pay too much for the boat
- don’t keep it very long (taxes, registration, etc all cost $$)


My story may help you.

I fell in love with sailing when a friend took my wife and I out for an afternoon sail on his Catalina 30 on Lake Michigan. We live in NW Indiana and have access to the south end of the lake.

The next summer, I first took some sailing classes that allowed me to charter from the place. I chartered a few times over the summer and made sure I liked sailing. Took the Admiral out and made sure she didn’t hate it (she doesn’t love it like I do , but she can handle a nice sunny, warm summer sail).

Over the winter, I did a lot of on-research, looking at different boats. One that caught my attention was the MacGregor 26M, a trailerable monohull that could carry a 50HP outboard. It could motor at 20 knots, sail and be used as a camper when on the trailer. Sounded PERFECT!

Now, in my situation, I expect to sail on Lake Michiganall of the time, and I don’t have a truck to pull a sailboat (the 26M isn’t light even wig it’s water ballast). But I was intrigued by the concept...so I went and looked at one at a dealer.... seemed smaller than I imagined, certainly seemed to be built cheaper than I imagined, and overall I wasn’t all that impressed. But I still wanted to sail one...so I put a note out on the MacGregor site here on SBO, asking if anyone in the NW Indiana/Chicago/SE Michigan are had a 26M and would be willing to take
Me for a sail. Eventually, a nice fella from Southhaven MI responded that he had a 26x (precursor to the 26M) and if no one closer had responded, he would be happy to take me out. We made the arrangements to out from his boat ramp.

When I got there, we had to rig the 26x, put on the sails and launch her. We went out on the big lake, and put up the sails. The boat didn’t sail all that well IMHO. We cranked up the engine, IIRC, a 50 Hp outboard. The boat did not get up on a plane and seemed to wallow a bit even after we dumped the Water ballast. After we motored back to the ramp, we had to re-trailer her, and take off the sails and drop the rig, probably an hour to get her ready to trailer home.

I really appreciated the sail, and I learned al things that day:
- I had no interest in a trailerable boat. I was going to sail on Lake Michigan and I needed to be able to afford a slip.

- The MAC 26M no longer intrigued me. It wasn’t a good sailboat, and it wasn’t a good motor boat. I was better off with a real sailboat.

- I wanted a 30+ foot boat, with real ballast, a Diesel engine, a real toilet, galley, etc.

I found what I wanted in a 1988 O’Day 322...but before I could make an offer, she sold.

I bought the next boat I saw, a 1996 Hunter 280. She was a little smaller than I wanted, but was newer and in great shape.

I learned a lot on the Hunter, learned to sail, Dock, do some basic maintenance. She was a great starter boat for me.

But of course, I still wanted a larger heavier boat, and after about 5 years with the Hunter 280, the O’Day 322 came up for sail again...and I did not hesitate to buy her. I have owed her for about 5 years now and still love the boat.

So, in my case, buying the Mac 26M would have been a big mistake. But the Hunter 280 was a great starter boat. A boat I could learn on and that didn’t need constant maintenance. She was new enough that I didn’t lose a ton of $$ when I sold her and she wasn’t so expensive that it was hard to find a buyer...I had two boats in slips for about a month...that could have been bad!

So, if you really think about what is important to you, and tailor your purchase to where you see yourself in 5-10 years with a boat, it certainly can be a good thing.

Good luck with your quest.

Greg

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Tanqueray

I don’t think buying a starter boat is dumb, but you can do a lot of research and test sails before buying that first boat. And buying a starter boat may be dumb if you:
- pay too much for the boat
- don’t keep it very long (taxes, registration, etc all cost $$)


My story may help you.

I fell in love with sailing when a friend took my wife and I out for an afternoon sail on his Catalina 30 on Lake Michigan. We live in NW Indiana and have access to the south end of the lake.

The next summer, I first took some sailing classes that allowed me to charter from the place. I chartered a few times over the summer and made sure I liked sailing. Took the Admiral out and made sure she didn’t hate it (she doesn’t love it like I do , but she can handle a nice sunny, warm summer sail).

Over the winter, I did a lot of on-research, looking at different boats. One that caught my attention was the MacGregor 26M, a trailerable monohull that could carry a 50HP outboard. It could motor at 20 knots, sail and be used as a camper when on the trailer. Sounded PERFECT!

Now, in my situation, I expect to sail on Lake Michiganall of the time, and I don’t have a truck to pull a sailboat (the 26M isn’t light even wig it’s water ballast). But I was intrigued by the concept...so I went and looked at one at a dealer.... seemed smaller than I imagined, certainly seemed to be built cheaper than I imagined, and overall I wasn’t all that impressed. But I still wanted to sail one...so I put a note out on the MacGregor site here on SBO, asking if anyone in the NW Indiana/Chicago/SE Michigan are had a 26M and would be willing to take
Me for a sail. Eventually, a nice fella from Southhaven MI responded that he had a 26x (precursor to the 26M) and if no one closer had responded, he would be happy to take me out. We made the arrangements to out from his boat ramp.

When I got there, we had to rig the 26x, put on the sails and launch her. We went out on the big lake, and put up the sails. The boat didn’t sail all that well IMHO. We cranked up the engine, IIRC, a 50 Hp outboard. The boat did not get up on a plane and seemed to wallow a bit even after we dumped the Water ballast. After we motored back to the ramp, we had to re-trailer her, and take off the sails and drop the rig, probably an hour to get her ready to trailer home.

I really appreciated the sail, and I learned al things that day:
- I had no interest in a trailerable boat. I was going to sail on Lake Michigan and I needed to be able to afford a slip.

- The MAC 26M no longer intrigued me. It wasn’t a good sailboat, and it wasn’t a good motor boat. I was better off with a real sailboat.

- I wanted a 30+ foot boat, with real ballast, a Diesel engine, a real toilet, galley, etc.

I found what I wanted in a 1988 O’Day 322...but before I could make an offer, she sold.

I bought the next boat I saw, a 1996 Hunter 280. She was a little smaller than I wanted, but was newer and in great shape.

I learned a lot on the Hunter, learned to sail, Dock, do some basic maintenance. She was a great starter boat for me.

But of course, I still wanted a larger heavier boat, and after about 5 years with the Hunter 280, the O’Day 322 came up for sail again...and I did not hesitate to buy her. I have owed her for about 5 years now and still love the boat.

So, in my case, buying the Mac 26M would have been a big mistake. But the Hunter 280 was a great starter boat. A boat I could learn on and that didn’t need constant maintenance. She was new enough that I didn’t lose a ton of $$ when I sold her and she wasn’t so expensive that it was hard to find a buyer...I had two boats in slips for about a month...that could have been bad!

So, if you really think about what is important to you, and tailor your purchase to where you see yourself in 5-10 years with a boat, it certainly can be a good thing.

Good luck with your quest.

Greg

thanks, Greg, for a good example of what I and other proponents of the starter boat concept have been on about.

And also for an experienced evaluation of the Mac 26 family of compromise boats. The discussions here have lacked responses from folks who, like you, were disappointed in their experiences on these boats.

Cheers,

Jim

[Tanqueray]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

thanks, Greg, for a good example of what I and other proponents of the starter boat concept have been on about.

And also for an experienced evaluation of the Mac 26 family of compromise boats. The discussions here have lacked responses from folks who, like you, were disappointed in their experiences on these boats.

Cheers,

Jim

Each person’s needs are as unique as the boats they sail.

I am glad I found a boat that I can be happy with (for now...still thinking about a 37-40- foot “retirement” boat ).

Greg

[thomm225]

I'm still on my starter (monohull) boat.

(I had maybe 11 other boats before this one though. They were 20' and under. 4 were beach cats for racing, 1 sailing dinghy, and 6 small power boats 17' or less)

My starter boat is a 1974 Bristol 27 and I've had it for 9 years.

I paid $2,000 for it and didn't get a survey. So far I have done no structural repairs. I
have not yet replaced the rigging or thru hulls (seacocks) but have sailed it in winds to 30 mph and been anchored in wind gusts up to 45 knots or so. The boat is overbuilt and very tough.

I have slowly put maybe $12,000 into it over these 9 years (including the purchase price) with replacement autopilots, LED Cabin Lamps, paint (interior, exterior, bottom jobs) solar panels and controller (Victron), new main engine outboard (5hp 4 stroke) inverters, VHF/AIS/GPS, HDTV, Raspberry Pi computer, custom made 5.5" settee cushion, alps mountaineering sleeping pads, replacement tiller, replacement mainsail, replacement dodger and mainsail cover, replacement dyneema/polyester lifelines, replacement running rigging, 2 suunto handheld compasses, starter sextant, cabin shades, etc

I'm still using the PO's dock lines, early 90's depth finder, anchors and rode, and the thru hull fittings are original with most being closed with the hoses removed or cut and capped off

These days with the internet there are some very good sites that can help you with your decision on a good first boat.

For ocean going boats under 32':

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html

Then there's the Mahina site. Scroll down for offshore boat list

https://www.mahina.com/cruise.html

[Buzzman]

While I do tend to agree with those who've said: try before you buy, and try mono, cat and tri, if you can, as Greg did with his "Mac26", can I lob in a curve ball from left field...??

If upfront cash investment is a concern, but the trailerboat concept is the preference, can I suggest you also research the predecessor to the C27, Farrier's TrailerTri 720 (TT720).

Only 24' long, and not as spacious as the later 27', but every bit as fast and as fun - and cheaper to buy. Why? Pretty much all were owner-built in marine ply and epoxy. Most were well-built. A really good one might set you back US$14K (see here) https://www.sailingtexas.com/sfarriertt720a.html

For comparison, I paid the equivalent of US$1500 for mine, requiring rot repairs in the beam boxes (a known weakness on this model, so I knew it was there and pointed it out to get a discount).

OK, so I know it's an older ad, but they do come up occasionally on sales sites, though most these days are traded off dedicated FA-boat forums, like the ones on io.groups. https://fct.groups.io/g/TrailerTris And there are lots of them about, and they are relatively easy to DIY repair. But I'd advise (in your situation) getting one which has been restored and used regularly. 'Ready to go' TT720 *might* set you back US$10-14K. Probably less.

Mine takes an hour to rig/de-rig with one person assisting. And as it weighs 2800lbs on the trailer, you can probably tow it behind your existing truck without needing an upgrade, though be aware, you will be travelling slower than normal as wind drag is pretty huge, no matter what you tow with. I haul mine beind a 3.0L V6 Isuzu Trooper, and it will travel at 60mph on a smooth flat road. Got any of them down your way??

If you can afford the C27, I'd definitely recommend that as a better option, but if you can't, or you are worried about dipping a toe in and getting wet, the TT720 *might* be an option worth considering.

[thomm225]

The biggest problem with a trailer sailor is the putting together and taking apart.

It gets to be a real PITA after a while.

I'll never forget when I found that I could keep my boats at the lake in the Lightning Sailing Associations lot for a few dollars per year then all I had to do was put the boat in the water and attach the sails.

A few years later when I moved back to the coast I kept both boats (beach cats) parked just above the high water mark (and tied down) so then all you needed were the sails and you could go.

My 15 year old son and his friends would carry the sails down to the boats then sail the 8-10 miles across Pensacola Bay to Pensacola Beach and check out the girls etc and just hang out all day. I'd see them sailing back in the evening from Pensacola mainland

[Buzzman]

I agree. If you live close enough. But the OP said he was quite a way from the water, so probably not a viable option in this case.

The more successful (over time) sailing clubs seem to be those that have sufficient 'mast-up' storage so members boats can be left as you suggest - ready to go with the addition of sails.

Ideally, find a free marina. Then all you have to do is stepo aboard, loosen the lines and go.

What? No such thing as a 'free' marina...???? Dang. There goes that plan!

[Don C L]

No but we have a mast-up yard here that's not too expensive. They wheel your trailer and boat out, hoist it in and out and roll it back to your spot. You just need a boat that is under 6000 lbs I think. I checked into it for mine but I'm too heavy. As convenient as that seems to me, the vast majority of the boats there seem to be rarely visited. There's a Albin Vega in there that is languishing. For someone who lives locally that could be a great little boat, in a relatively cheap spot, right near a great cruising ground!

[ssmoot]

The slips on the closest lake are $7 to $10 per foot. If I kept a boat for five years, that would mean I might end up spending more on the slip than the boat, not including maintenance or upgrades. I just can't make that make sense for me while we're also trying to save for "FutureBoat".

Speaking of, YachtingWorld has the DF40 at €425,000 (ex VAT presumably). That sounds like a much more believable base-price. I feel like TMG is probably scalping their example in the same way that the early Leopard 45's were being listed for exorbitant prices.

Still a good chunk of money. No way around that. But if commissioned Touring examples hit anywhere close to $1M in a few years I'd be shocked. We'd intend to buy used anyway.

All that said Seawind still tops our wish-list.

Daydreaming aside, we've given this a lot of thought and we're leaning towards a Hunter 260 or Catalina 250 for a starter boat. The DF28 is really appealing, and it seems like you could get one shipped to the States for a few thousand on a RORO since it's trailerable but that's three times what we were planning on spending initially.

On the other end of the spectrum the Hunter or Catalina are cash boats we can buy in-state, which seems a lot simpler.

The Corsairs seem like nice boats for what they are, but after a lot of thought I don't think what they are is what we're looking for. I can't really imagine the family spending a weekend on one in the Texas summer with no air-conditioning and only a few hundred pounds of payload to spare. A monohull isn't the dream, but sailing, having a galley, a decent place to sleep for everyone, standing headroom and an enclosed head for half what our travel-trailer cost (on the high end) is hard to pass up.

In the meantime we're still planning on getting out to the lake later this month for some time on the water and maybe some certifications before actually committing to anything.

Thanks all!

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

The slips on the closest lake are $7 to $10 per foot. If I kept a boat for five years, that would mean I might end up spending more on the slip than the boat, not including maintenance or upgrades. I just can't make that make sense for me while we're also trying to save for "FutureBoat".

Speaking of, YachtingWorld has the DF40 at €425,000 (ex VAT presumably). That sounds like a much more believable base-price. I feel like TMG is probably scalping their example in the same way that the early Leopard 45's were being listed for exorbitant prices.

Still a good chunk of money. No way around that. But if commissioned Touring examples hit anywhere close to $1M in a few years I'd be shocked. We'd intend to buy used anyway.

All that said Seawind still tops our wish-list.

Daydreaming aside, we've given this a lot of thought and we're leaning towards a Hunter 260 or Catalina 250 for a starter boat. The DF28 is really appealing, and it seems like you could get one shipped to the States for a few thousand on a RORO since it's trailerable but that's three times what we were planning on spending initially.

On the other end of the spectrum the Hunter or Catalina are cash boats we can buy in-state, which seems a lot simpler.

The Corsairs seem like nice boats for what they are, but after a lot of thought I don't think what they are is what we're looking for. I can't really imagine the family spending a weekend on one in the Texas summer with no air-conditioning and only a few hundred pounds of payload to spare. A monohull isn't the dream, but sailing, having a galley, a decent place to sleep for everyone, standing headroom and an enclosed head for half what our travel-trailer cost (on the high end) is hard to pass up.

In the meantime we're still planning on getting out to the lake later this month for some time on the water and maybe some certifications before actually committing to anything.

Thanks all!

For small boats slips do eat up funds.

My first thought is none of the starter boats you mentioned (DF28 or the plastic monohulls) would be any fun without AC in the summer. Thing is with a try you could at least sleep on deck which would be cooler. Also not convinced the bunks or interior space on the monohulls would be a lot more comfortable than a small tri. You really need to sail on all of them to get a feel for what it is like.

Maybe more importantly is sailing a mono is different than a multihull and I am not convinced there is a lot of skill transfer that would help you. As others have mentioned putting together and taking apart a boat on a trailer can be a real PITA. One of the biggest advantages any fboat has is how easy it is to do this compared to any other boat I know of. Ian designed fboats to be easier than competitors to put together and take apart and did it better than anyone. Some of the newer Dragonfly designs have made mast raising much easier and I really like their designs better than Ian's designs but the older Dragonfly designs are good but not up to the modern ones.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ssmoot

The slips on the closest lake are $7 to $10 per foot. If I kept a boat for five years, that would mean I might end up spending more on the slip than the boat, not including maintenance or upgrades. I just can't make that make sense for me while we're also trying to save for "FutureBoat".

Assuming a 28ft boat at $8/ft...that's $224 per month.

Assuming you you already have the truck to tow the boat (if you don't the finances get really bad). This also assumes the boat comes with a good road worthy trailer at no extra cost.

You are probably looking at going from 16MPG to 8MPG on a big pickup. You indicated DFW to Galveston so about 600miles roundtrip for a weekend. Assuming $2.50/gal prices...

That's about $94 extra just in gas each weekend. If you take a 30mpg car it's even more.

That doesn't include wear and tear on the truck, tires and brakes on the trailer.

Basically if you take the boat to Galviston twice a month, it's pretty much a wash.

Plus you have the hassle of a couple hours set up and tear down to get the mast up and get road ready on each end. Plus at least for us, we figure slower travel speeds when towing. Instead of running a 75mph, we drop back to about 60mph...over 600 miles, that's an extra 2hr of driving for a weekend.

We did a similar calculation when we were jumping up from a 16ft runabout and eventually decided to go for a 31ft boat and get a slip rather than something in the mid 20ft range, so we could tow. The only way we could justify the towable boat is if we assumed that we didn't use it.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Assuming a 28ft boat at $8/ft...that's $224 per month.

Assuming you you already have the truck to tow the boat (if you don't the finances get really bad). This also assumes the boat comes with a good road worthy trailer at no extra cost.

You are probably looking at going from 16MPG to 8MPG on a big pickup. You indicated DFW to Galveston so about 600miles roundtrip for a weekend. Assuming $2.50/gal prices...

That's about $94 extra just in gas each weekend. If you take a 30mpg car it's even more.

That doesn't include wear and tear on the truck, tires and brakes on the trailer.

Basically if you take the boat to Galviston twice a month, it's pretty much a wash.

Plus you have the hassle of a couple hours set up and tear down to get the mast up and get road ready on each end. Plus at least for us, we figure slower travel speeds when towing. Instead of running a 75mph, we drop back to about 60mph...over 600 miles, that's an extra 2hr of driving for a weekend.

We did a similar calculation when we were jumping up from a 16ft runabout and eventually decided to go for a 31ft boat and get a slip rather than something in the mid 20ft range, so we could tow. The only way we could justify the towable boat is if we assumed that we didn't use it.

There are always extra costs with boats no matter what. Keeping a boat in a slip in salt water usually means a haul out and bottom job at least every two years and hiring a diver to clean the bottom every month or two. Zincs need to be replaced as well. Even if you clean the bottom and replace your zincs you may save some money but there is some cost.

A lot depends on where you store the boat and how far you normally have to travel. For lots of folks with fboats they trailer significant distance to race or rally with other owners. I am sure there are other class boats where the owners trailer their boats for social reasons.

Maybe the biggest consideration is how one intends to use the boat. While I may get back into full time cruising what forced me to stop was a change in the weather. When I bought my boat in 2012 for around five years there were no hurricanes that affected me in Florida; then there were multiple hits every year; so now I can only really cruise in the season; except for this year due to COVID-19 and my late start since I did the Baja Ha-Ha.

Truth be told the OP would most likely get the best bang for his buck by keeping what ever boat he buys on a trailer by the ocean and driving there on weekends. It would also open up the possibility of maybe going to the Keys for a month, or even two weeks, in season.

Originally the OP was leaning towards an fboat but now seems more inclined to get a little plastic fantastic monohull. Nothing wrong with either choice but they are very different experiences. I have to wonder if the OP's best path is to slow down and reassess what his goals are before doing anything.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by tomfl

There are always extra costs with boats no matter what. Keeping a boat in a slip in salt water usually means a haul out and bottom job at least every two years and hiring a diver to clean the bottom every month or two. Zincs need to be replaced as well. Even if you clean the bottom and replace your zincs you may save some money but there is some cost.

Sure but a bottom job and cleaning the bottom can be mostly DIY jobs...maybe $200-300 per year on average. Balance that vs having to buy a $50-70k pickup to tow it....

My point is by itself on a $50k boat slip fees are easily washed out by other costs and yes, you need to consider how you plan to use it. I personally couldn't justify dumping $50k into a boat and not using it A LOT.

[smj]

My father once told me there are 2 kinds of boats, those big enough to live aboard and those small enough to trailer. If you own a boat big enough to live aboard you damn well better live aboard.....his theory.
Tom has a good point. Rather than trailer the boat from Dallas to Galveston every weekend, just rent a spot to park the boat in Galveston, $50-$100 per month?
This would also put less wear and tear on truck, trailer and the drivers nerves!!!!

[CarlF]

Unfortunately, you are about to enter a 10 year period where your kids are not going to want to leave their friends and school sports to spend a lot of weekends locked up in a small boat with their parents in the middle of nowhere.

It happened to me. It happens to a lot of people.

I'd consider chartering two weeks a year in a place the kids would love to go. Like the Caribbean. Mexico. South Pacific. These are trips your kids will talk about for the rest of their lives as great family time.

For the first few, the charter company will put a captain on board until you pick up enough skills. Doesn't cost much on top of the charter - and the kids will think the captain is really cool. The boat will have cabins for everyone and be a yacht. Pick a big company like the Moorings with many bases for variety.

Once the kids are out of the house, your wife and you should certainly buy a boat. - and you'll have been able to try a bunch out in the charters so you - and more importantly your wife - will know whether you want to be a full time live-aboard perhaps circumnavigating - a part time live aboard spending a few months aboard each year - or weekends and a few weeks a year sailor. These are all very different boats.

Good luck.