Jaguar 36 Stories ?

[Notyet]

A very good morning, afternoon or evening! I'm a total newby on this forum, and this is my first thread, so hi everybody.
Eight years ago we sold our old steel sailing yacht to emigrate from the Netherlands to South America. But next year our last descendant will start a study oversees, and we are trying to sell our house, so that we will be able to buy a boat again. And not just for sailing, but also to live on it.
We came across a nice Jaguar 36 and started to read everything we could find on the internet. And of course after the Bumfuzzle story and some other negative remarks from other people, we started to doubt if buying a Jaguar36 is such a good decision... We read some enthousiast stories, though, but mostly from delivery captains, who probably can't afford to be negative.
What we would like to read, are enthousiastic stories from Jag36 owners who are not planning to sell their boat soon :-)
Anybody? All stories about quality /sailing characteristics or stories about short and long trips would be very welcome. Thanx in advance!

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Notyet.

[belizesailor]

I own a Wildcat 35, the boat from which the J36 evolved. Either the W35 or J36 are good little cruising cats with a big cat feel and layout. The biggest issue is that Charter Cats, the company that built these boats, had a wildly variable quality of build. They built some good boats (like mine) and they built some real crap.

If you are considering one of these boats, then the most important thing of course is to not buy one that has serious quality of build issues. The best way to avoid this is to get a thorough professional survey from a surveyor who has no relationship with the broker/seller. Do this regardless of the boat you buy.

I've cruised, lived aboard, and run mine in charter for many years. It is a great little boat for all of these uses.

The biggest design negative is that these boats have relatively low bridge deck clearance. The J36 I think has a bit more, but still relatively low. Therefore they do get bridge deck slamming in the right conditions.

There is much debate about the Bumfuzzle's experience, but bottom line is that their little cat took the safely many miles and they missed her when they sold her.

[Notyet]

Belizesailor, thanx! About the Bumfuzzle - I read al the stories and I guess it was a combination of poor build and some kind of accident of the cat with the first owner (anti fouling under glass mats...?).
So you are happy with the boat. But about the slamming. If you would have known beforehand what you know now about that, would you still have bought the Wildcat? Or is it a minor negative point you can live with? I mean, do you have slamming very often, or just now and then, in certain circumstances?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Notyet

Belizesailor, thanx! About the Bumfuzzle - I read al the stories and I guess it was a combination of poor build and some kind of accident of the cat with the first owner (anti fouling under glass mats...?).
So you are happy with the boat. But about the slamming. If you would have known beforehand what you know now about that, would you still have bought the Wildcat? Or is it a minor negative point you can live with? I mean, do you have slamming very often, or just now and then, in certain circumstances?

Yes, the Bumfuzzle thing has been debated to death. Their lack of experience I think may have magnified the issues and made it more difficult to nail down the origin of the problem, but who knows...

Overall yes I am happy with the W35. I would of course like a boat with several meters of bridge deck clearance and double digit cruising speeds, so I lust after Gun Boats and Chris White's now and again, but their price tags (at around 10x or more than the W35) calm me right down.

Like a few other W35 owners you may read about, I bought the W35 because my wife liked it and the price was right. I expect when I sell her in another season or two the new owner will say the same thing. It was not the "perfect" boat (there is no such thing) but it has worked well for my use (this is always the ultimate criteria for any boat -- is it well suited to the intended use -- Chris White's are impressive, but would not make a very good mooring field tender).

If you are going to windward with any significant sea state you will get some degree bridge deck pounding....bigger seas likely more...smaller seas less and it depends somewhat on the characteristics of the seas -- short period steep waves will pound worse. A bit off the wind not much of an issue. Any cat will pound in the right conditions, higher bridge deck clearance -- less often and in larger sea states.

Real world example, last year we cruised over 900 nautical miles. Only on one leg of about 1/2 a day did we have any significant bridge deck pounding. This was in 20+ knots of wind, close hauled, and 3-6 feet of short ugly chop while working our way across the Nicaraguan banks enroute to Providencia, Colombia. In these conditions or similar you will get bridge deck pounding. More off the wind you will likely only get the occasional slap. Once we reached our turning point, and fell off towards Providencia, it was a lovely down wind sleigh ride -- lounging on the forward tramps with auto steering happily under the stars.

Another case in point, Cayo Cochinos, Honduras (awesome place) to Roatan Honduras. True wind about 20 knots, about 6' long period swell running with smaller wind waves atop, apparent wind just forward of beam, rocking along at 8.5 knots, only the occasional slap under the bridge deck.

[Notyet]

Belizesailor, thanx! This is exactly the kind of information that I am looking for. Conclusion: pounding is not a factor for which we wouldn't buy the Jaguar 36. As you describe it, it is just as annoying as cold rain - it's irritating, but you won't die from it. Sometimes I get the impression that some people exaggerate these kind of things because they are so used to perfect comfort, that they can't (don't want to) handle a little discomfort now and then. After our emigration we lived here more than 5 years without electricity and running water, with three teenagers. Yes, it would have been nice then, but we didn't die from it and we were happy and we loved it here. And when we got it, two years ago, we were the happier with it!
We simply love the lay out of the 36 and if the boat is in good condition, I can't imagine we won't like living on it and sailing with it.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Notyet

...... Sometimes I get the impression that some people exaggerate these kind of things because they are so used to perfect comfort, ....

Yes, the Internet, including CF, is full of self-proclaimed experts and elitists who live to spend YOUR money to fulfill THEIR fantasies.

Listen to those with that have real experience, like you are getting from belizesailor.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Notyet

Belizesailor, thanx! This is exactly the kind of information that I am looking for. Conclusion: pounding is not a factor for which we wouldn't buy the Jaguar 36. ...
...
We simply love the lay out of the 36 and if the boat is in good condition, I can't imagine we won't like living on it and sailing with it.

True, if I did not have the W35 I would consider a Jaguar. It's basically the same boat design just refined over a few iterations of building the boats.

I met a young family of 4 here on the Rio a few years ago who bought a Wildcat 35 and then I crossed paths with them in Belize a few times and they were quite happy.

You're welcome.

[belizesailor]

Another point to consider, Charter Cats bumped up the asking price on the J36, thus eliminating one of the key advantages of the W35 (may have added momentum to their business failure). I don't know what they are asking for this boat, but if its much over about US$150K then that certainly opens other boats in the US$200K+/- price ranges for consideration.

I do know owners of a J36, who personally supervised its build in SA, and paid about US$165K for it.

[Jane.Joy]

Where are all the self-proclaimed experts and elitists? A newbie wants to buy a Wildcat/Jaguar and NOBODY wants to chime in with predictions of doom and gloom? Is the positive and helpful tone of this thread an early effect of the coming Blue Moon, maybe? Or what?

I think most cat owners will admit they get some pounding in certain sea states, regardless of how awesome their bridgedeck clearance is, and the occasional slam even in calmer waters, if they hit a series of swells just right (or wrong). It is not a big deal for us, just a continuing source of curiosity - NOW what is she gonna do?!

[Notyet]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I don't know what they are asking for this boat, but if its much over about US$150K then that certainly opens other boats in the US$200K+/- price ranges for consideration.

It's an owner's version. Only had one owner. Built in 2005, deployed in 2006, now for sale for € 139.000,-, so US$ 170.000,-
Okay, you can get a Lagoon 380 for that money, but just ex charter boats... And as far as I have seen till now, there are not many competitors in that price range that fit my height (1,88 meters / 6ft2) and that equal those lay outs...

[Notyet]

JaneJoy, maybe the Bumfuzzle story is too old by now, and the Jag is not so bad after all. And maybe that's the reason that I don't get the doomscenario stories

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Notyet

It's an owner's version. Only had one owner. Built in 2005, deployed in 2006, now for sale for € 139.000,-, so US$ 170.000,-
Okay, you can get a Lagoon 380 for that money, but just ex charter boats... And as far as I have seen till now, there are not many competitors in that price range that fit my height (1,88 meters / 6ft2) and that equal those lay outs...

Typically of course asking prices are negotiable, especially in this economy. If I could get them to come down a bit I would certainly consider the J26.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Jane.Joy

Where are all the self-proclaimed experts and elitists? A newbie wants to buy a Wildcat/Jaguar and NOBODY wants to chime in with predictions of doom and gloom? Is the positive and helpful tone of this thread an early effect of the coming Blue Moon, maybe? Or what?

I think most cat owners will admit they get some pounding in certain sea states, regardless of how awesome their bridgedeck clearance is, and the occasional slam even in calmer waters, if they hit a series of swells just right (or wrong). It is not a big deal for us, just a continuing source of curiosity - NOW what is she gonna do?!

Oh, I'm sure they will descend upon this thread eventually, but fortunately we've already covered the facts and the important stuff. And, have done so with posts from actual real live catamaran owners.

I used to run FP's and Privileges in charter, both of which typically have higher bridge deck clearance, and as you say any cat will get some bridge deck pounding in the right circumstances. Geez, I have a friend with 95' custom built power cat which has massive bridge deck clearance (if I took the mast off, I could probably drive my little W35 under this boat!), even in this beast he got caught in some conditions last year where he got some bridge deck pounding.

[Notyet]

Belizesailor, I'm glad I got your response first But hey, I've already read all the bad stories, so I know what can be wrong with a Jag 36. But that's good too. When you read everything that has gone wrong, you know what to do and where to look for, when you're thinking about buying one, right? In my own language we have a saying that says: "A warned person counts for two." I don't even know if that is decent English, but that's approximately what it says...
And like you and other people have said, you'll never find the perfect cat. I have also been drooling over pictures of million dollar catamarans, but although some are very nice, most of them I wouldn't wanna have in a million years, even if I had the money for it and some more.