Lagoon 52, think twice before purchasing it

[category4jay]

i just scratched Lagoon off the list. Been trying to do that for a long time but just couldn't do it...until now.

[MarkSF]

Why would you buy something like that, when you can buy something like this?

1986 Bristol Center Cockpit Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

or this :

2004 Oyster 56 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by category4jay

i just scratched Lagoon off the list. Been trying to do that for a long time but just couldn't do it...until now.

Why? Because someone has some problems with a new boat? Problems that have not yet been qualified or quantified?
An oil leak and some electronic issues are not something i would consider significant in any way.
Heck, if that are the only problems on a boat i would say the boat is good to go anywhere.

Or is it because you can't talk a yard like lagoon into a contract that suits your ideas? That would only work with really small yards. Yards that don't do production runs but do one-offs.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

Why would you buy something like that, when you can buy something like this?

1986 Bristol Center Cockpit Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

or this :

2004 Oyster 56 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Why would you buy half a boat when you can buy a cat?
the only thing i would do with one of those is put it up for sale.

Seriously, this thread is certainly not about cat vs mono.

[category4jay]

Rabbi,
Im sure that when it comes time I will reconsider Lagoon but this is just another yellow flag story about Lagoon. There are numerous buyer beware tales out there about Lagoon-more than any other manufacturer by far that I have read. Besides I'm with others-my cat will be a newER cat thats been broke in.

[rabbi]

Really, so far i haven't read that many horror stories about lagoon, especially considering their market share. If you have please provide pointers as i am genuinely interested as a potential future customer (ok, only in the used market but still)

the OP has not yet provided anything substancial about these issues. Maybe these are real issues but from what i read between the lines it doesn't really sound like that.

Plus if its problems concerning outfittings like electronics and engines this may not be a genuine lagoon problem. An oil leak on an engine is most likely not an installation issue. That engine could also reside in any other boat.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Why would you buy half a boat when you can buy a cat?
the only thing i would do with one of those is put it up for sale.

Seriously, this thread is certainly not about cat vs mono.

But all threads can become about cat vs. mono!

[rabbi]

I just re-read the first few posts and noticed the OP is in Mallorca currently. 80Nm away in Marina Salinas / Torrevieja is a Lagoon dealer, an outpost of Catmarina. I can't say much about the dealer himself but the technical guy there (aks for Richard) is a really good one. Knowledgeable, open and friendly, reliable, learned the business in the UK. We had quite a few things done there on our previous Lagoon and there was nothing we could complain about.

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

But all threads can become about cat vs. mono!

Please don't. It is just rude and boorish to hijack a thread in such a pointless fashion.

Mark.

[Dave22q]

In some ways buying a new boat is like buying a new car. If your contract says acceptance is subject to passing inspection you are on rock solid grounds. Yes it may take a while before all of your money is refunded but it will be with interest and costs if any legal action is necessary. All you need to do is make sure the seller is in a jurisdiction with reasonable contract law and will not go bankrupt on you. Too many in this thread seem to confuse minor shakedown problems with major one but if you refuse acceptance unless all of your deficiencies are addressed within a reasonable time you will get ALL of your money back. Preacceptance surveys are about the best investment you can make.
Also when buying a new boat allow time for fixes. Make no arrangements based on promised delivery dates. You need to allow lots of slack.

[Dulcesuenos]

A

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[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Why? Because someone has some problems with a new boat? Problems that have not yet been qualified or quantified?
An oil leak and some electronic issues are not something i would consider significant in any way.
Heck, if that are the only problems on a boat i would say the boat is good to go anywhere.

Or is it because you can't talk a yard like lagoon into a contract that suits your ideas? That would only work with really small yards. Yards that don't do production runs but do one-offs.

I guess you missed the part where they sold a man a boat for close to a million dollars, and it needed a lot of stuff repaired, brand new.

Then the other part about them not fixing any of the problems or answering his requests for them to fix it.

Either one of those would be enough for me to say HELL NO and spread the word about their lousy customer service. Together, it's a total non starter.


Everyone has their BS level, how much BS are they willing to put up with to get what they want? If I got a 52' Lagoon for $100K I'd spend the money to fix it and then sell it.

If I bought a 52' Lagoon for $900K, I'd expect it to be nearly perfect. There's some clown collecting a fat check at the factory to be in charge of QC. When something like that leaves the factory, I want him to personally explain to me how he thinks he should keep his job as I point out failure after failure on his part. Or, his head on a stick. Either or.

If you want to see what a happy customer looks like getting his amazing custom built 50' catamaran built under his watchful eye and the level of perfection that St Francis puts out, check out Hugh Howey's thread on his new St Francis 50 Mk II.

They couldn't have been more accommodating, he couldn't be more thrilled, and I couldn't be more impressed. Not only is that level of customer service and perfectionism possible, at that price point, it should be mandatory and anything less should be unacceptable.

I don't believe there's more than a 10% price difference between the 2, but the level of thought and craftsmanship in the St Francis isn't matched by any production boat, AFAIK.

[smj]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I guess you missed the part where they sold a man a boat for close to a million dollars, and it needed a lot of stuff repaired, brand new.



Then the other part about them not fixing any of the problems or answering his requests for them to fix it.



Either one of those would be enough for me to say HELL NO and spread the word about their lousy customer service. Together, it's a total non starter.





Everyone has their BS level, how much BS are they willing to put up with to get what they want? If I got a 52' Lagoon for $100K I'd spend the money to fix it and then sell it.



If I bought a 52' Lagoon for $900K, I'd expect it to be nearly perfect. There's some clown collecting a fat check at the factory to be in charge of QC. When something like that leaves the factory, I want him to personally explain to me how he thinks he should keep his job as I point out failure after failure on his part. Or, his head on a stick. Either or.



If you want to see what a happy customer looks like getting his amazing custom built 50' catamaran built under his watchful eye and the level of perfection that St Francis puts out, check out Hugh Howey's thread on his new St Francis 50 Mk II.



They couldn't have been more accommodating, he couldn't be more thrilled, and I couldn't be more impressed. Not only is that level of customer service and perfectionism possible, at that price point, it should be mandatory and anything less should be unacceptable.



I don't believe there's more than a 10% price difference between the 2, but the level of thought and craftsmanship in the St Francis isn't matched by any production boat, AFAIK.

I agree with most of this, but even the so called perfect boatbuilder is not always so. St.Francis has had their fair share of problems with dissatisfied customers and supposedly having a hard time fulfilling their obligations. Of course with the power of the internet it only takes one dissatisfied customer to wreak havoc with a company's reputation. Let's hope Hugh has a good experience.


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[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by smj

I agree with most of this, but even the so called perfect boatbuilder is not always so. St.Francis has had their fair share of problems with dissatisfied customers and supposedly having a hard time fulfilling their obligations. Of course with the power of the internet it only takes one dissatisfied customer to wreak havoc with a company's reputation. Let's hope Hugh has a good experience.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

True nobody's perfect. Doubtful anyone could build one defect free catamaran, much less a whole run of them. Based on Hugh's latest video, it looks like he has possession of it as they finish up a couple very minor details and everything looks and works great, so far.

In every product category there are leaders who have the reputation (MB, Lexus, Glendale RV, Rolex, Drake, B&O, etc) that the others would love to have, but they're not willing to put in the R&D, training and QC to get there.

I'd much rather buy a 4 yr old MB than any brand new Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Ford or Chevy. Not only will it be more satisfying to drive, it will hold it's value better from that point on, and be more reliable.

Same with catamarans, I'm still learning, but it looks more and more like there are a few brands that are pretty much trouble free, including their older models (aside from normal overhaul periods) and others that aren't quite so trouble free.

[sailnow2011]

Million dollar boats, built on a production line, is a sure way to making a million dollar turd.
For that kind of money you CAN have a completely custom boat.
In fact you can build a 50' aluminum cat for well under 1million, fully kitted out.
If I can buy a 65' cat hull for $450,000, I could build a 65' for under a mil as well.
Have to be smart with your cash, and patient with the builder.
Lagoons are pretty on the outside, but if you start looking for bulkheads, do not be surprised to find none. The hulls integrity is also lacking. You need to look under the interior. Oh, whats that? you cant look under the inner hull liner? Well, then you have another issue...