Lagoon bulkheads

[ozsailer]

Thanks SMJ for posting the update. Finally we are seeing/hearing what is the actual issue. I look forward to them posting their report on the damage. Interesting to hear that the rig is leaning to port. I understand that this may be a non structural bulkhead that is broken but the question still remains, what has caused this and is there other damage that has not been identified at this point in time.


Ozsailer

[krid2000]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

I look forward to them posting their report on the damage.

There's a link to their damage report under their latest video.

Dirk

[smj]

Originally Posted by krid2000

There's a link to their damage report under their latest video.



Dirk

Thanks for that.

[NaClyDog]

It's a good thing people watch the youtube to get their sailboat dramas.


It's not like all those youtubers need to generate revenue to buy new boats and fix their old boats. /s And, getting a job absolutely doesn't appear to be an option based on all the threads I see here referencing them.



I think P.T. Barnum had something to say about people who watch youtube shows.

[wingssail]

I don't know how often I agree with NaClyDog, but in this case I sure do.

Successful youtubers work really hard at pumping out the shows and making their shows entertaining and professional. I think a lot of them start out with the idea that they can finance their boat and cruising life easily by doing videos which is supposed to be fun. Then they learn how hard it is, and many can't keep it up. Well, that's like any business. But mostly I think what happens is there is a lack of realism, basically to meet the needs of entertainment.

But if you got some good lessons and ideas out of it, that's great.

However, I never in my life felt like sitting and watching all the youtube channels, in fact I've only rarely seen any, and probably none from start to finish of one episode. I would rather DO almost anything than WATCH others do something especially when it is crassly staged to keep me watching.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by crayiii

Again, the main issue is the complete lack of support from Lagoon. They are creating this mess.

Really? Complete lack of support? One of my buddies has a 450 fly bridge and was hauled and repaired in Ft Lauderdale earlier this year on Lagoon's dime.

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Really? Complete lack of support? One of my buddies has a 450 fly bridge and was hauled and repaired in Ft Lauderdale earlier this year on Lagoon's dime.

Have you seen the repair? What year is your buddies vessel? Ask your buddy how long they will stand by that “fix”. I understand that they guarantee it for a year…

Send some pictures so we can judge. Im not convinced lagoon is providing a service here.

Maybe this is just the reality of owning a cat that is + 15 years old. Any other brands having this issue?

[CatLove]

Bulkheads and any other damage in an old boat is not an issue.
Legally those boats are out of their warranty period since a very long time.
Realistically if you owned a 20 y.o. car would you expect it to last forever? Would it be an "issue" if the body got rust or the engine needed a rebuild? Would anybody expect the car manufacturer to fix for free this old car? Even if it had been driven 200k miles?
The issue is the illusion that fiberglass+resin hulls last forever.

It was true back in the early stages of glass boats industry at least for some builders of bulletproof hulls but definitely this does not hold true for relatively modern design catamarans.

The same as cars, designs have evolved toward more performance, more features, shorter product lifecycles. Stuff has been optimized .
How many people expect their cars to be like in this old ad? How many people would expect Volvo to fix their vintage car for free ?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CatLove

Bulkheads and any other damage in an old boat is not an issue.
Legally those boats are out of their warranty period since a very long time.
Realistically if you owned a 20 y.o. car would you expect it to last forever? Would it be an "issue" if the body got rust or the engine needed a rebuild? Would anybody expect the car manufacturer to fix for free this old car? Even if it had been driven 200k miles?
The issue is the illusion that fiberglass+resin hulls last forever.

It was true back in the early stages of glass boats industry at least for some builders of bulletproof hulls but definitely this does not hold true for relatively modern design catamarans.

The same as cars, designs have evolved toward more performance, more features, shorter product lifecycles. Stuff has been optimized .
How many people expect their cars to be like in this old ad? How many people would expect Volvo to fix their vintage car for free ?

Cars and boats are two different things. Would hou spend a million dollars on a car and be ok with scrapping it after 15 or 20 years?

Boats and houses are also different things, but boats are more like houses than they are like cars, particularly what concerns structure. The systems of a boat need periodic replacement, but the structure of a good boat has a useful life of at least 50 years.

An expensive boat designed to be scrapped in 15 or 20 years is not something I would touch with a 10 foot pole. My 21 year old boat - built in the modern way with full balsa core -- has structure as good as new, as tested in F9 and F10 conditions including countless North Sea crossings, and if I don't trade her for something else at some point, fully expect to be fit for purpose over another 20 years. A good boat won't appreciate like a house, but should certainly hold up and last like one.

[CatLove]

I agree, boats are or should be more like houses than cars. A good comparison .
Roofing is big business though, maybe because new home roofs don't last more than 15-20 years in places like Florida at least. After that, time for a new roof and it is expensive . Most don't have more than 15-20 year warranties . Same as boats, 15 years of sailing followed by major repairs out of manufacturer's warranty.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CatLove

I agree, boats are or should be more like houses than cars. A good comparison .
Roofing is big business though, maybe because new home roofs don't last more than 15-20 years in places like Florida at least. After that, time for a new roof and it is expensive . Most don't have more than 15-20 year warranties . Same as boats, 15 years of sailing followed by major repairs out of manufacturer's warranty.

Well, sure, a boat is a hole in the water you throw money into.


But the hull and bulkheads (and chainplates and spars) should not be among those systems you have to replace regularly.


You replace the roof of a house every 20 years (actually mine is copper, so every 100 years), plumbing and wiring every 25 to 30 years, etc. etc. etc., but you do NOT fix the foundations or replace the floor joists on a schedule. The hull and bulkheads of a boat (and chainplates and spars) are like that. A house with a foundation which needed to be rebuilt after 20 years would be a really crap house. Same with boats and bulkheads in my opinion. Certainly I wouldn't buy such a boat.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by CatLove

I agree, boats are or should be more like houses than cars. A good comparison .
Roofing is big business though, maybe because new home roofs don't last more than 15-20 years in places like Florida at least. After that, time for a new roof and it is expensive . Most don't have more than 15-20 year warranties . Same as boats, 15 years of sailing followed by major repairs out of manufacturer's warranty.

That's because the builders install the cheapest materials that will pass inspection and most people don't know the difference. Put in a metal or tile roof and it will last your lifetime.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by CatLove

I agree, boats are or should be more like houses than cars. A good comparison .
Roofing is big business though, maybe because new home roofs don't last more than 15-20 years in places like Florida at least. After that, time for a new roof and it is expensive. Most don't have more than 15-20 year warranties . Same as boats, 15 years of sailing followed by major repairs out of manufacturer's warranty.

An argument against the house analogy is the economics. A house is an appreciating asset, whereas boats and cars are depreciating assets. The economics say that the trajectory of the value of the boat has to be downward. Is that the chicken or the egg? Is it practically impossible to make a boat last 100 years or are boats intentionally not made to last 100 years because they depreciate? I suspect it is a bit of both. Another huge difference is that a house is built on real property, which has a lot to do with its appreciation. Boats and cars are not attached to land (which is one reason why we like them).
To me it seems the fundamental problem is that a boat is economically a deteriorating asset and so the MBAs calculate how to build them as cheaply as they can to make them last about as long as they have value. Again, a chicken and the egg problem. But, unfortunately, more like a car than a house, in my view.

[smj]

I guess boats and houses have a lot in common. Both can be built to last, using good materials and skilled labor, but that will end up to be a costly product. Or they can be built with inferior materials and inferior labor which should end up with a lower cost product, but not always. Seems the norm nowadays is to build an inferior structure and cover it with higher end finishes, why? Because your basic customer only looks at the high end finish and figures the rest of the boat/house is built accordingly.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by smj

I guess boats and houses have a lot in common. Both can be built to last, using good materials and skilled labor, but that will end up to be a costly product. Or they can be built with inferior materials and inferior labor which should end up with a lower cost product, but not always. Seems the norm nowadays is to build an inferior structure and cover it with higher end finishes, why? Because your basic customer only looks at the high end finish and figures the rest of the boat/house is built accordingly.

Well, just like there are different houses, there are different boats.


Mass produced middle class suburban houses are much like mass produced inexpensive boats. And I'm not saying they're terrible -- there is a lot of efficiency in building that way, so the money saved may be worth the shorter life (both in case of house and boat) in some cases. Note that many cheap mass produced boats nevertheless have quite good structures. Not all of the mass market boat builders cut corners with the structure of the boat. Ultra-cheap Hansa seem to be pretty good structurally, as are Bavarias and Jeanneaus. Beneteau has good and bad models.



Then there are high end European boats which are really built like brickhouses, built to last a lifetime. Swan, Oyster (with a notable fail delivered to one Russian buyer), Discovery, Conquest, Sweden Yachts, Nauticat, etc.


Chalk and cheese compared to mass produced boats, but unfortunately with prices to match.