Lagoon bulkheads

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Snore, the 4th part of the equation is inadequate engineering and/or construction methods. Are the bulkheads properly sized and glassed in? We know the L450 had neither.

Exactly.

And there is no way a boat should be flexing like that. That's completely incorrect. aside from the skin, the bulkheads are what cause the boat not to flex. If they are properly installed, there is no meaningful give. No bend.

My boat for example. It was stress tested before it ever left the building facility.

The stress test consisted of supporting the boat on four corners. Both bows and both sterns. then you knock out one of the supports on one of the corners. And you measure the deflection.

It was something like 1/8". maybe. Over 50ft. that’s how a boat is supposed to be built. If you have a boat that flexes and oil cans, it’s just a bunch of low quality design/materials with a lot of marketing spin around it. A stiff boat is the best boat when it comes to sailing. Good sailboats are not designed to bend.

This discussion has nothing to do with steel supertankers. We are talking about fiberglass sailboats.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Snore, the 4th part of the equation is inadequate engineering and/or construction methods. Are the bulkheads properly sized and glassed in? We know the L450 had neither.

Exactly #2.
If properly built bulkheads shouldn’t break loose.
We’ve owned 2 cats that have flex, an Edel 43 and a Seawind 1000. Both these cats are 2 hulls and a bridgedeck attached to 3 aluminum beams, they are meant to flex like a Wharram. Both these cats also had a beautiful motion in seas.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

Exactly #2.
If properly built bulkheads shouldn’t break loose.
We’ve owned 2 cats that have flex, an Edel 43 and a Seawind 1000. Both these cats are 2 hulls and a bridgedeck attached to 3 aluminum beams, they are meant to flex like a Wharram. Both these cats also had a beautiful motion in seas.

OK. There’s always the exception. Lol. Those boats are designed to have flex. But a standard monohull or standard 100% composite Catamaran is not designed to flex. Not in any meaningful way. Definitely not in exaggeratied way that we are talking about that allows bulkheads to pop off

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

OK. There’s always the exception. Lol. Those boats are designed to have flex. But a standard monohull or standard 100% composite Catamaran is not designed to flex. Not in any meaningful way. Definitely not in exaggeratied way that we are talking about that allows bulkheads to pop off

Absolutely agree!

[Celestialsailor]

Life was so much easier when we use to talk about Hunter's whose keels fell off or which anchor dragged more...

[crayiii]

I remember when people just STFU and fixed their boats.

Clearly Lagoon wasn’t prepared for how to handle the social media reveal of the 450 issue. I know that Nahoa contacted Lagoon before making this public to try to get support. Lagoon ignored them just as they did the 450 YouTube channel (how did they not learn?) I also know the YouTube channels need people to click, watch, and tell others about their videos so they can earn a living. Drama sells!

I have seen a FP, a leopard, and a privilege with bulkhead issues. Guess what? In all those cases the manufacturer was immediately involved in the repair process.

I own a Lagoon but it’s not one that is known for any issues. I’ve asked Lagoon multiple times over the years for support. What was their answer? Usually one sentence non-reply emails months and in one case, a year later that have basically let me know that I’m on my own.

I’ve accepted that. I’ve spent most of my life on boats either making a living or just living. Things break (every day it seems) and we fix them. Should bulkheads break? I certainly don’t think they should! Do they? Yeah, it’s not uncommon. Most people get to work with repairs. Some pick up the camera. Lagoon, it seems, through their treatment of owners, has pushed people to pick up the camera.

I’m not sure how the other builders view their customers but in Lagoon’s case, the end user is not their customer. Lagoon sells to dealers and it’s the dealers (some are also charter companies) who Lagoon considers to be their customer. At some point Lagoon needs to reavaluate how they view the owners of the boats.

[CarlF]

For all those piling on against Lagoon it’s worth noting that no 450 has been lost, been dismasted, or had anyone injured due to the bulkhead error. That’s pretty remarkable given the huge number of 450’s out there for over a decade. No one had even noticed it until Colin did an unusual amount of investigation because the boat had been hurricane damaged. While it was good to fix the bulkheads, it’s likely Colin’s boat would have circumnavigated without the fix.

By comparison, a new 80’ Oyster sank after her keel fell off and a Gunboat 55 was abandoned on her maiden voyage after the rig failed. There are many other examples of premium builders making serious and expensive to fix engineering errors that make Lagoon look superior on a percentage of boats built comparison.

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Perhaps if you had read the post you would have seen that the estimate was for the additional costs to do the job right AT THE TIME OF BUILD, not to repair a damaged boat.

Aaah, sorry for incorrectly calling you out. At the time of build, Yes, we are in total agreement.

I’m only human.

[Wilyum]

Originally Posted by CarlF

By comparison, a new 80’ Oyster sank after her keel fell off and a Gunboat 55 was abandoned on her maiden voyage after the rig failed. There are many other examples of premium builders making serious and expensive to fix engineering errors that make Lagoon look superior on a percentage of boats built comparison.

Were those one off errors in construction or substandard design choices made to save on material and labour costs to meet a price point? If the latter, agree completely.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by CarlF

For all those piling on against Lagoon it’s worth noting that no 450 has been lost, been dismasted, or had anyone injured due to the bulkhead error. That’s pretty remarkable given the huge number of 450’s out there for over a decade. No one had even noticed it until Colin did an unusual amount of investigation because the boat had been hurricane damaged. While it was good to fix the bulkheads, it’s likely Colin’s boat would have circumnavigated without the fix.

By comparison, a new 80’ Oyster sank after her keel fell off and a Gunboat 55 was abandoned on her maiden voyage after the rig failed. There are many other examples of premium builders making serious and expensive to fix engineering errors that make Lagoon look superior on a percentage of boats built comparison.

Actually, Colin noticed it en route to Panama Canal when his shrouds suddenly loosened up. He likely would have lost the rig if it had happened through the canal en route to South Pacific. I think that’s pretty serious.

[ozsailer]

Hello all, I imagine that most members who have posted on this topic are wondering where Sailing Nahoa is up given their reported issues just like me. I was hoping that SN would have posted on their Youtube channel or other sites but to date I can find no update. As such I have sent a PM (26/7/22) to Sailing Nahoa checking on their welfare and respectfully asking where they were up to. If I get a response I will pos here be it good, bad or ugly if granted permission by SN.

Ozsailer

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Hello all, I imagine that most members who have posted on this topic are wondering where Sailing Nahoa is up given their reported issues just like me. I was hoping that SN would have posted on their Youtube channel or other sites but to date I can find no update. As such I have sent a PM (26/7/22) to Sailing Nahoa checking on their welfare and respectfully asking where they were up to. If I get a response I will pos here be it good, bad or ugly if granted permission by SN.

Ozsailer

Dude, they’re kicking back relaxing in Canada. Hahaha!

[Sand crab]

Yup, The O'kelly's vid was around the 4th of July and they saw SN at the end. That house they were staying at was frikkin nice. Is it theirs?

[Shaneesprit]

Originally Posted by CarlF

For all those piling on against Lagoon it’s worth noting that no 450 has been lost, been dismasted, or had anyone injured due to the bulkhead error. That’s pretty remarkable given the huge number of 450’s out there for over a decade. No one had even noticed it until Colin did an unusual amount of investigation because the boat had been hurricane damaged. While it was good to fix the bulkheads, it’s likely Colin’s boat would have circumnavigated without the fix.

By comparison, a new 80’ Oyster sank after her keel fell off and a Gunboat 55 was abandoned on her maiden voyage after the rig failed. There are many other examples of premium builders making serious and expensive to fix engineering errors that make Lagoon look superior on a percentage of boats built comparison.

I wouldn’t want to be in Lagoons shoes if someone was killed by a Lagoon going down in a Storm, they would be on corporate manslaughter charges, it’s one thing to loose a new boat in a failure it’s a completely different legal animal, ignoring or putting cost before life. After months or years of knowledge.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

I wouldn’t want to be in Lagoons shoes if someone was killed by a Lagoon going down in a Storm, they would be on corporate manslaughter charges, it’s one thing to loose a new boat in a failure it’s a completely different legal animal, ignoring or putting cost before life. After months or years of knowledge.

Why do you say they are ignoring the issue? They are fixing all of the 450’s. Just a fear monger statement?