Lagoon Sail Drive Placment

[atoll]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

Quote "Why would they do this?" Because they can.

It is a total none issue as far as maneuvering under power or sail. If your prop is in front of your rudder when going forward, it will be behind it when in reverse, and visa versa for the opposite setup. Some catamarans with outboards have them offset from the line of the rudders and they still manage to maneuver very well, even though the prop wash is not being directed directly over the rudder in either direction.

This setup also allows the engine and sail drive to be placed aft of the accommodation area behind a (hopefully watertight) bulkhead. Keeping the heat and engine smell out of the living area to a much greater degree than if said engine is under a sheet of marine ply beneath the mattress.

I guess if "real sailors" see this as a big disadvantage, it would be easy enough to spill some diesel on the sheets and sleep with a heater on to get that old school experience.

real sailors don't have engines at all!

they back the mainsail when wanting to go in reverse
or use a kedge

[Snore]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Close quarters maneuvering under power normally you lock the wheel and just use motors. As a charter captain, I do this a lot jockeying boats around.

On aft propped boats, especially bigger ones w more HP, the wheel can be quite hard to hold. I usually lock it and jam my hip or knee against it.

I do the same. But usually I back down doing 1-1.5kts so the forces on the rudder are nominal. I teach the “3 Guinness rule”. A bartender should have enough time to draw 3 proper pints of Guinness in the time it takes you to move the last 100 feet of docking a boat. If you do it in less time, you are docking too fast!

When teaching newbies how to handle a cat, I teach using the engines to control direction until forward hull speed hits about 2 kts. Then the rudders begin to really bite.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Snore

I do the same. But usually I back down doing 1-1.5kts so the forces on the rudder are nominal. I teach the “3 Guinness rule”. A bartender should have enough time to draw 3 proper pints of Guinness in the time it takes you to move the last 100 feet of docking a boat. If you do it in less time, you are docking too fast!

When teaching newbies how to handle a cat, I teach using the engines to control direction until forward hull speed hits about 2 kts. Then the rudders begin to really bite.

this is the shot of jack daniels version.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LRhkMH48_Q

[tomestone]

I think they be interbreed

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tornadosailing

Not sure the backing issue has much to do with the rudders before or after the Saildrive.

Ever backed one w props aft of rudders...would change your perspective.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by atoll

real sailors don't have engines at all!

they back the mainsail when wanting to go in reverse
or use a kedge

Aarrgh Matey!

The day before I permanently retire from running boats Im gonna try that on a Lagoon 500 (or bigger)! 😆

Yeah, definately bigger.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Snore

I do the same. But usually I back down doing 1-1.5kts so the forces on the rudder are nominal. I teach the “3 Guinness rule”. A bartender should have enough time to draw 3 proper pints of Guinness in the time it takes you to move the last 100 feet of docking a boat. If you do it in less time, you are docking too fast!

When teaching newbies how to handle a cat, I teach using the engines to control direction until forward hull speed hits about 2 kts. Then the rudders begin to really bite.

I teach similarly empahsizing control over speed. It seems to be mosts initial reaction to want to throttle up (and thus go faster...thus rudders start to work...thus boat wants to go straight). Opposing thrust is much more effective.

[UFO]

Still trying to get my head around the steerage issue - I understand at close quarters under engines, it's all about the engines, but when actually sailing surely rudders forward rather than aft will give inferior steerage by basically moving the pivot point (steerage point) forward?
A technical explanation as to why this is not so would be appreciated or maybe even confirming it?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Aarrgh Matey!

The day before I permanently retire from running boats Im gonna try that on a Lagoon 500 (or bigger)! 😆

Yeah, definately bigger.

once you learn to dock and undock with only one working engine on a cat its easy

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

PITA when backing. On the Lagoons Ive run the wheel brake wont hold it. So you or a crew member must also hold the wheel.

Phew!, at least someone is holding the wheel.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by atoll

once you learn to dock and undock with only one working engine on a cat its easy

Pfft...piece of cake...I meant under sail only. [emoji41]

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by UFO

Still trying to get my head around the steerage issue - I understand at close quarters under engines, it's all about the engines, but when actually sailing surely rudders forward rather than aft will give inferior steerage by basically moving the pivot point (steerage point) forward?
A technical explanation as to why this is not so would be appreciated or maybe even confirming it?

Never noticed any practical difference under sail....at least not when sailing forward. [emoji6]

[Tornadosailing]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Ever backed one w props aft of rudders...would change your perspective.

Yup, I have. I bareboated a Lagoon 440 on seven occasions.

Whether the rudders are ahead or behind the props, if you go too fast you'll have a difficult time holding them centered.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tornadosailing

Yup, I have. I bareboated a Lagoon 440 on seven occasions.

Whether the rudders are ahead or behind the props, if you go too fast you'll have a difficult time holding them centered.

Speed will do it, but also just thrust...like when jockeying a big cat into a tight spot. The rudders are unbalanced so worse with reverse thrust.

[tenchiki]

It's not just the cats that have that problem. Small outboard powered sailboats like mine (Yankee Dolphin 24) with the outboard directly aft of the rudder also have err, "different" handling under power.
And we don't have the option of 2 engines to help!