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BambooSailor · 10-08-2010, 14:24

One technique not mentioned (or I may just missed it): if there is any risk of wind gusts, deploy only windward daggerboard and only partially. If wind starts heeling the boat, daggerboard will emerge from water allowing boat to slip sideways, possibly spilling just enough wind to prevent capsize. I know, it goes against what daggerboards are for, but if conditions warrant it, the technique may work. Just a thought...

henryv · 10-08-2010, 14:44

Just a thought on a possible easy way to reduce risk. I know if I only put a couple turns on the sheet winch it will still handle the job in light air while it won't handle heavy loading. Possibly using fewer than normal turns on the winch would allow it to serve as a slip device if subjected to a sudden load increase??

tsmwebb · 10-08-2010, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran

... I can't get over the the pile of rope hanging in Anna's cockpit. It would be no wonder someone would be confused in an emergency situation trying to release the main.

I don't think that was a factor at all in this case. The crew did not report any confusion of that type.

Quote:

I2F has a valid point about standing watch in the middle of the boat vs standing it behind the bulkhead. Your much more likely to be outside on a conventional cat, IMO.

I do not think the layout of the boat played much if any of a role in this loss. It was reported that the crew saw and dismissed the squall and were caught off guard. It seems that they were neither in the inside station where they could have attempted to steer out of trouble nor in the cockpit where they would have had that option as well as easy access to sheets and halyards. If they'd been walking around in a typical aft cockpit design it's likely they wouldn't have been any closer to the controls.

Quote:

As far as a device to automatically release the sheet in an emergency, am I missing something in suggesting a knife? Or an extra crew manning the main winch?

If they were close enough to the sheet to cut it they could have just eased it. The problem was not a jammed cleat or override. For whatever reason they were caught off guard. To be sure that should never happen but the point of an automatic system is that if it does happen in a dangerous situation there is some backup.

Tom

tsmwebb · 10-08-2010, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by BambooSailor

One technique not mentioned (or I may just missed it): if there is any risk of wind gusts, deploy only windward daggerboard and only partially. If wind starts heeling the boat, daggerboard will emerge from water allowing boat to slip sideways, possibly spilling just enough wind to prevent capsize. I know, it goes against what daggerboards are for, but if conditions warrant it, the technique may work. Just a thought...

I do this more out of faith than any belief that it provides a lot of safety. It does increase weather helm which may or may not be desirable depending on the situation. It is not as effective in reducing the heeling moment as reefing the sails. Long narrow hulls are hard to push sideways through the water anyway so removing the board doesn't let the hull slip sideways all that easily. On Anna it would have been more problematic as she has asymmetrical boards... Anyway, I think there is something to it but I doubt it is huge.

Tom

tsmwebb · 10-08-2010, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by henryv

Just a thought on a possible easy way to reduce risk. I know if I only put a couple turns on the sheet winch it will still handle the job in light air while it won't handle heavy loading. Possibly using fewer than normal turns on the winch would allow it to serve as a slip device if subjected to a sudden load increase??

You're thinking of a self tailer? Don't see how that would work at all if the sheet is in a cleat. With a self tailer the sheet will slip if there are not enough turns but maybe not enough to help and each slip will damage the winch and/or sheet. You could probably devise and install a pretty fancy automatic release for less than the cost of replacing your winches...

Tom

barnakiel · 10-08-2010, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastOff

Boating is made safer with each year's experience at the helm.

How about complacency?

I think I have seen more high mileage, complacent sailors than complacent rookies. I would also say that many long-time cruiser run into bad trouble sooner or later.

Sort of contrary to common sense. Maybe common sense is wrong then.

b.

Pelagic · 10-08-2010, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

How about complacency?

I think I have seen more high mileage, complacent sailors than complacent rookies. I would also say that many long-time cruiser run into bad trouble sooner or later.

Sort of contrary to common sense. Maybe common sense is wrong then.

b.

That is the great thing about sailing and this Forum….. there is no expiry date on “Life lessons” and sad events like Anna is a wake up call to all of us….

**GordMay** · 11-08-2010, 06:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

How about complacency? ...

I never ground out in unfamiliar waters, only those with which I'm intimately familiar. I’ve often given in to the temptation to “tickle the tail of the dragon”.

kaimiloa · 11-08-2010, 07:10

was the overturned hull found?

**estarzinger** · 11-08-2010, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

How about complacency?

I think I have seen more high mileage, complacent sailors than complacent rookies. I would also say that many long-time cruiser run into bad trouble sooner or later.

Sort of contrary to common sense. Maybe common sense is wrong then.

b.

I know when we started out we were very cautious but still made lots of mistakes just because we did not have a clue. And quite honestly that sounds like where these cat guys were at. Its easy to make very bad mistakes with squall sailing until you have learned a few hard lessons and unfortunately these guys schooling was the end for this boat.

After we got some experience we have gone thru cycles. We will successfully acomplish something and pat ourselves on the back and start thinking we finally know what we are doing and as you say get complacent, then the ocean will slap us down hard and we will regain the healthy humble attitude and be extra cautious and prudent until weafter a while as things go well we again start to think we know what we are doing and get slapped down again.

And its still going on after two long RTW's and 15 years of pretty much full time cruising. Just this spring we got slapped down very hard after being overconfident and trying to be too clever when leaving a tricky anchorage.

FSMike · 11-08-2010, 08:00

I agree with Evan. I always thought sailing was a lot like riding motorcycles. About the time you think you've got it mastered is when it'll spit you off.