Larger "seasoned" lagoon cats on discount

[keelsidedown]

Sailing Zingaro has a new video detailing the underway creaks and groans a large, older lagoon makes while it slowly self-destructs.

I'm also starting to see a number of >40' lagoons come up for sale with highly negotiable prices.

At this point, I would say that anyone considering these boats should demand a sea trial with an experienced manufacturer neutral marine surveyor aboard.

Honestly, given the hell parley revival has gone through to remediate their structural flaws, these boats are now off my list no matter how low the prices fall.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by keelsidedown

Sailing Zingaro has a new video detailing the underway creaks and groans a large, older lagoon makes while it slowly self-destructs.

I'm also starting to see a number of >40' lagoons come up for sale with highly negotiable prices.

At this point, I would say that anyone considering these boats should demand a sea trial with an experienced manufacturer neutral marine surveyor aboard.

Honestly, given the hell parley revival has gone through to remediate their structural flaws, these boats are now off my list no matter how low the prices fall.

You already started an identical thread to this here on 7/11 entitled "Lagoon cats now on discount.." (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...nt-253214.html in case you've forgotten).

It's not clear what you're trying to accomplish, but everyone has said their piece, now let it go! If you really want to bring it back up again, go back to the previous thread you started. Talk about kicking a dead horse.

[keelsidedown]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

You already started an identical thread to this here on 7/11 entitled "Lagoon cats now on discount.." (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...nt-253214.html in case you've forgotten).

It's not clear what you're trying to accomplish, but everyone has said their piece, now let it go! If you really want to bring it back up again, go back to the previous thread you started. Talk about kicking a dead horse.

It's a trend and everyone needs to be aware so they don't get stuck with a lemon.

I understand that you probably have significant self interest in making sure your lagoon retains its resale value, but it is looking like you should expect some accelerated and significant deprecation well above and beyond past schedules.

I feel for you, but getting angry at the news bringer is just wasting time and effort you should be directing at groupe beneteau.

The evidence is beginning to accumulate that lagoon catamarans are under engineered. I suspect that we're going to see rigging inspection frequency increase and that lagoons will need rigging adjustment every two to five years, with rigging engineer comments to insurance providers being grounds for having insurance denied. You had better prepare for reality, 'cause its coming at you fast and hard.

[EngineerRetired]

It's a trend and everyone needs to be aware so they don't get stuck with a lemon.

Accomplished in the previous thread.

I suspect that we're going to see...

When you get your engineering certificate and inspect a hundred or so boats your "suspicions" may carry weight. Reviewing YouTube videos does not qualify.


As suggested, there is a running thread on this, stay with it. Please.

[keelsidedown]

Originally Posted by EngineerRetired

It's a trend and everyone needs to be aware so they don't get stuck with a lemon.

Accomplished in the previous thread.

I suspect that we're going to see...

When you get your engineering certificate and inspect a hundred or so boats your "suspicions" may carry weight. Reviewing YouTube videos does not qualify.


As suggested, there is a running thread on this, stay with it. Please.

I have yet to meet anyone plying the small vessel waters worth a damned who carries an actual PE designation.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by keelsidedown

...Honestly, given the hell parley revival has gone through to remediate their structural flaws, these boats are now off my list no matter how low the prices fall.

That's your example, a boat that was declared a total loss from hurricane damage and someone tried to revive/rebuild it? Hardly seems like a manufacturing flaw that there might be some hidden structural damage in a boat that went through a hurricane (and according to its insurer didn't survive).

[keelsidedown]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

That's your example, a boat that was declared a total loss from hurricane damage and someone tried to revive/rebuild it? Hardly seems like a manufacturing flaw that there might be some hidden structural damage in a boat that went through a hurricane (and according to its insurer didn't survive).

The observation has nothing to do with the boat's history and everything to do with the task intensive remediation from the inside of a finished boat. Lagoons will need reinforcement and structural design changes leave an interior that will never have the same fit and finish. That alone cuts the residual price of a used "fixed" lagoon catamaran by ~30%.

[chris mac]

I have one of lagoons oldest designs. 1993 lagoon tpi, and none of these issues.
You are painting a very broad stroke over a company because of one issue on one model! And I have yet to see a single boat of any design that is issue free.
If you aren't satisfied with lagoon catamarans, I suggest you don't get one. I will continue to enjoy mine.

[Dsanduril]

Having to remove cabinetry and finish to access structure is hardly unique to Lagoon. Heck, it's hardly unique to boats. If I want to access structure in a house I have to remove, and eventually replace, the finish materials. And the finish materials I remove are frequently destroyed in the process and can't be re-used.

You said "flaws", which indicates the problems come from Lagoon, but your sole example is a boat that was destroyed by a hurricane. There's a very plausible explanation for the structural failures that doesn't mean there was a "flaw". Not saying that flaws don't exist (from examples I've seen), but Parlay is not an example of flaws, either in original structure or the fact that accessing structure requires removing finish.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by keelsidedown

It's a trend and everyone needs to be aware so they don't get stuck with a lemon.

I understand that you probably have significant self interest in making sure your lagoon retains its resale value, but it is looking like you should expect some accelerated and significant deprecation well above and beyond past schedules.

I feel for you, but getting angry at the news bringer is just wasting time and effort you should be directing at groupe beneteau.

The evidence is beginning to accumulate that lagoon catamarans are under engineered. I suspect that we're going to see rigging inspection frequency increase and that lagoons will need rigging adjustment every two to five years, with rigging engineer comments to insurance providers being grounds for having insurance denied. You had better prepare for reality, 'cause its coming at you fast and hard.

I'm quite happy with my Foutaine Pajot Mahe 36, thank you. What about you, what boat do you own and what's your interest here? I am also curious what I said that indicated "anger" to you? What I'm not happy with, and in fact a bit angry about at this point, is that you felt the need to falsely accuse me publicly of trying to cover something up out of self interest. Personal attacks not only fail the test of basic civility but also violate the terms of the site you agreed to and in this case, make you look particularly foolish. So all around, perhaps not the best of ideas?

When it comes to what one is trying to accomplish here, we really have to ask you that? You already posted exactly this same information in a thread just a few weeks ago here, as I already pointed out to you, so you've done your civic duty to "make everyone aware". Continuing to beat this dead horse accomplishes exactly what that hasn't already been hashed and rehashed, again just a few days ago? Simply trying to stir the pot, generate some controversy, and make people angry, again doesn't pass the basic civility test or accomplish anything of value. So please, ask yourself going forward exactly what you're trying to do and if it's any of the above, just don't.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Having to remove cabinetry and finish to access structure is hardly unique to Lagoon. Heck, it's hardly unique to boats. If I want to access structure in a house I have to remove, and eventually replace, the finish materials. And the finish materials I remove are frequently destroyed in the process and can't be re-used.

You said "flaws", which indicates the problems come from Lagoon, but your sole example is a boat that was destroyed by a hurricane. There's a very plausible explanation for the structural failures that doesn't mean there was a "flaw". Not saying that flaws don't exist (from examples I've seen), but Parlay is not an example of flaws, either in original structure or the fact that accessing structure requires removing finish.

Considering there are many Lagoon 450’s that have this problem and Lagoon have produced a “fix” I would say it is a flaw.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by smj

Considering there are many Lagoon 450’s that have this problem and Lagoon have produced a “fix” I would say it is a flaw.

I'm not disputing that in the case of the L450 in general. I am disputing that Parlay Revival makes an example of this since there is a very plausible reason for the damage other than a "flaw". If the OP had instead pointed to XX samples of the model that have not been subject to outside design operating parameter conditions then it is an entirely different discussion. Then you can get into the conversation that Lagoon has had about what, exactly, are the design operating parameters. But pretty sure that getting thrown around on the hard by a hurricane is outside those, and so makes a poor exemplar for the class.

[Sand crab]

I don't have skin in the game but Parley did show many other L450s with the same bulkhead issues. It's not just his boat.
I'm not putting down the entire company but it seems they could be built a little better. Are FPs built the same way?

I wonder how the old TPIs were built? I like the 42s from back then.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by chris mac

I have one of lagoons oldest designs. 1993 lagoon tpi, and none of these issues.
You are painting a very broad stroke over a company because of one issue on one model! And I have yet to see a single boat of any design that is issue free.
If you aren't satisfied with lagoon catamarans, I suggest you don't get one. I will continue to enjoy mine.

That’s a different boat entirely. Those barely count as lagoons. (In a good way)

[Sand crab]

Yup, TPI was ahead of the curve then and still is in composites. They manufacture a significant amount of the worlds wind turbine blades now. $1.7 billion in sales!
https://www.tpicomposites.com/about/company-overview/