Leopard 39 sailing performance?

[SailFastTri]

I'm looking at 5-10 year-old cats and the Leopard 39 seems to be an attractive option, but I'm not finding much about real world performance.

Published reviews aren't trustworthy, IMHO, and I'd especially like to hear from owners who live with these boats.

Does it move along on a reach in moderate 7-15k winds?

Does it come about easily without going into irons?

I'm not expecting the Leopard 39 to be a performance boat, nor to point high, but I want to be able to sail more than motor. Thanks in advance for your input.

[ol1970]

We chartered one about 5 years ago and it was a great little cat to sail around on with 3 people. Performance was not great and certainly not as much fun to sail as a monohull, but from what I remember we lopped along at about 5-6 knots on a beam reach with 15 knots of wind, under 10 knots really didn’t bother but we tried a couple of times just for fun but it was hard to tell if we were moving lol.

It would be a very nice boat for a couple to live aboard though, the owners versions are just the right size, but don’t get one if you love the “sailing” aspect of sailing if that makes sense.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by ol1970

from what I remember we lopped along at about 5-6 knots on a beam reach with 15 knots of wind, under 10 knots really didn’t bother but we tried a couple of times just for fun but it was hard to tell if we were moving lol.

Are you sure you remember that correctly? That would be worse than a typical monohull.

We chartered one in Tampa in 2013 and our experience was very different. I don't recall the exact numbers but the air was very light at the time, definitely under 10 knots, and I was surprised at how well the boat was moving. It was also all push button sailing from the helmstation which was ridiculously easy.

The L39s were all delivered to the US and Europe on their own hulls, which would be hard to do if they were really slow.

I loved the boat - plenty of storage, the master shower is amazing, and you have a great view from the cabins.

So, SailFastTri - this means you are giving up trimarans??

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Rohan

Are you sure you remember that correctly? That would be worse than a typical monohull.

We chartered one in Tampa in 2013 and our experience was very different. I don't recall the exact numbers but the air was very light at the time, definitely under 10 knots, and I was surprised at how well the boat was moving. It was also all push button sailing from the helmstation which was ridiculously easy.

The L39s were all delivered to the US and Europe on their own hulls, which would be hard to do if they were really slow.

I loved the boat - plenty of storage, the master shower is amazing, and you have a great view from the cabins.

So, SailFastTri - this means you are giving up trimarans??

Thanks for your input. Yes, I sold my boat a few weeks ago. Now I need to find a new forum handle.

As we all know, boat choices involve trade-offs, and I'll probably never own another cruising boat that sails as well as my DF-1200. We're looking for more space and comforts now, without getting into the high price points commanded by performance cats.

[Barra]

We looked closely at these when they were new as the admiral did indeed like the layout. At the time they probably had the best livability of the sub 40 foot cats. But as you know that always comes at a price.

Unfortunately the sailing was woeful compared to the other sub 40 footers. We were caught in irons a couple of times on the day long test sail admittedly with charter level sails. Sailed a seawind 1160 and a lagoon 38 all within that week in identical conditions and fitout. Sadly the leopard went to the bottom of the list but it was a fun week.

If you are after some sailing performance with decent accommodation you really need to look a bit further up the length totem pole and go over 40 feet to be honest.

[SailFastTri]

Barra, I searched the internet and your posts are the only ones that come up with such a negative review. With hundreds of Leopard 39 boats on the water - yours seem to be the only ones.
Now, I’m not disputing your experience because I haven’t sailed the L39 yet. I’ve chartered a Lagoon 380 multiple times, and indeed “by the numbers” it’s a relatively slow boat and the Leopard is faster, by the numbers. I’ve stalled the Lagoon 380 and gone into irons while coming about, and I think it’s common for cruising cats that have low aspect keels and wide sheeting angles. In my limited experience you just need to carry enough speed/momentum to make it through the tack.
I spoke with a sailing friend who asked: “Are you planning to tack to windward? Why bother?” The point being cruising cats aren’t optimized for that. (Time to start the iron genny or change plans.)
I’m coming from years of sailing a cruising tri that’s orders of magnitude faster and points at 30-degrees apparent with efficiency. It’s been great. The design goals are different. I’d love to have an Outremer or HH cat, but the price doesn’t align with my financial objectives. I could look at the new FP Lucia or new Leopard 40, but they’re in the high $400s (used) and they’re even fatter/slower with lower quality interiors (but beautiful just the same).
And now my preference has shifted towards comfortable surroundings at anchor and all I want to know is if this thing will sail at a decent displacement “hull speed” at 40-50+ degrees apparent. It’s not about winning races, it’s about making comfortable passages and feeling like progress is being made, or hanging back for the right winds/weather.
I also spoke at length today with another friend (who has a Seawind 1160 Light) who is out cruising full time. He said he doesn’t sail to windward, or if he does he motors slower than other boats that have inboard engines. But he would rather hang back in a harbor or choose another destination, or wait for more favorable winds, than motor to weather.
I spoke with a third friend, a long time monohull sailor. He said if it can make 7 knots it’s all he could hope for.
So bottom line: I want to know what is realistic? I can make my own judgments about trade-offs, and won’t be disappointed if my expectations are in line with reality,

[Barra]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Barra, I searched the internet and your posts are the only ones that come up with such a negative review. With hundreds of Leopard 39 boats on the water - yours seem to be the only ones.
Now, I’m not disputing your experience because I haven’t sailed the L39 yet. I’ve chartered a Lagoon 380 multiple times, and indeed “by the numbers” it’s a relatively slow boat and the Leopard is faster, by the numbers. I’ve stalled the Lagoon 380 and gone into irons while coming about, and I think it’s common for cruising cats that have low aspect keels and wide sheeting angles. In my limited experience you just need to carry enough speed/momentum to make it through the tack.
I spoke with a sailing friend who asked: “Are you planning to tack to windward? Why bother?” The point being cruising cats aren’t optimized for that. (Time to start the iron genny or change plans.)
I’m coming from years of sailing a cruising tri that’s orders of magnitude faster and points at 30-degrees apparent with efficiency. It’s been great. The design goals are different. I’d love to have an Outremer or HH cat, but the price doesn’t align with my financial objectives. I could look at the new FP Lucia or new Leopard 40, but they’re in the high $400s and they’re even fatter/slower with lower quality interiors (but beautiful just the same).
And now my preference has shifted towards comfortable surroundings at anchor and all I want to know is if this thing will sail at a decent displacement “hull speed” at 40-50+ degrees apparent. It’s not about winning races, it’s about making comfortable passages and feeling like progress is being made, or hanging back for the right winds/weather.
I also spoke at length today with another friend (who has a Seawind 1160 Light) who is out cruising full time. He said he doesn’t sail to windward, or if he does he motors slower than other boats that have inboard engines. But he would rather hang back in a harbor or choose another destination, or wait for more favorable winds, than motor to weather.
I spoke with a third friend, a long time monohull sailor. He said if it can make 7 knots it’s all he could hope for.
So bottom line: I want to know what is realistic? I can make my own judgments about trade-offs, and won’t be disappointed if my expectations are in line with reality,

I would be VERY surprised if my comments were the only negative ones on L39 performance on the whole internet. You must not have looked very hard.

It appears you are well and truely into the emotional stage of buying. You want to like this boat. We have all been there. But pinch yourself and consider I spent a week trialing sub 40 footers back to back in the same conditions. It took some organising and I at least thought it was pretty valuable and pretty rare feedback.

You will motor to wind with the L39. You wouldnt need to so much with the other 2 I mentioned, nor the Lucia. All pocket cruiser cats will broad reach ok at 50% wind speed or so above 12 TWS but 40 apparent on the 39 is pinching and with considerably more leeway than the others.

To get enough momentum through the tack we would have to bear off to 50 app first. On the lagoon we could tack from 38 to 40 straight up and on the seawind from 35 using just an autopilot tack (ie no need to bear off post tack then come up)

Just my observations take em for what they are - honest and independent with no agenda.

As to importance of this stuff yeah that is entirely subjective. I used to love a good windward sail probably as much as you did on your tri and would always chose tacking over motoring. On the L39 I would probably have started motoring to wind too (or choosing a different destination)

[Bean Counter]

We had a performance 38ft dagger boarder for many years and also chartered Lagoon 380s Leopard 39s Liparis, Lagoon 440 etc ended up buying a Lagoon 450.


The easiest of them all to stall was the dagger boarder. It was so light (Lightship 4T) and if you stuffed up the back winding of the jib, it stalled in a heartbeat, it had little displacement inertia, like trying to tack a Hobie cat by the uninitiated. Of course as we sailed it more we learned to ease the main and hold the jib till the last minute and we rarely stalled after that.



We found all the fin keeled charter boats comparatively easy to tack, bear off a couple of degrees, ease the main and tack, they are much more forgiving. They obviously do not point as high. We found the Leopard hardly any different to any of the others, it was a nice boat to sail.



As with any yacht, they will have their nuances about their best angles and sail trim and it takes time to learn those to sail it well. It took about 3 months to learn to manage a fly bridge Lagoon, and then another 6 to make it go really well, it is a challenge for traditional thinking sailors who moan about them after a week which is what I did after chartering a 440.


In terms of lightish winds they will all sail in 6 knots, just slowly, about the same speed as a cruising monohull of same LWL. After 10 knots the fin keeled cats start to go better. In anything greater than 60 AWA a code zero helps enormously.

[Tin Tin]

PS. A square top mainsail is also a bonus.