Leopard 39 vs Lagoon 400

[gcaskew]

We are narrowing down to an ex-cat from either Moorings or Dream Yachts. Moorings has the Leopard 39 in Tortola and St. Martin, Dream yachts has the Lagoon 400 in Martinique.

So now to the questions...lol

I've talked to people that have purchased from Moorings in the BVI but never from someone that has bought from Dream Yachts or bought in Martinique.

• Is it more complicated, red tape, expensive to buy in Martinique vs the BVI's?
• Any experience buying from Dream Yachts?
• Opinions of the Leopard 39 vs the Lagoon 400's? Both of these check all of our boxes of must haves.

We fly down in a few weeks, so any information you folks have would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[ol1970]

Well, my only input is the following:

Late last fall I had gone through the entire process to purchase a Leopard 39 from the Moorings in Tortola. I had done all of the due diligence and was literally flying down the next morning for the sea trial and hand wire the rest of the funds when I get a call around 4PM...ummm well you may not want to come down because the starboard engine is blown and we can't move the boat. WTF, then the tried to pawn another L39 off on me that they said was in much better condition. Needless to say I politely declined and moved on but was turned off by how aloof they were to the situation.

I am sure there are quality boats for sale there, you just need to make sure you do your due diligence and go in with eyes wide open when purchasing and ex-charter cat. Good luck!

[Privleoplag]

Originally Posted by ol1970

Well, my only input is the following:

Late last fall I had gone through the entire process to purchase a Leopard 39 from the Moorings in Tortola. I had done all of the due diligence and was literally flying down the next morning for the sea trial and hand wire the rest of the funds when I get a call around 4PM...ummm well you may not want to come down because the starboard engine is blown and we can't move the boat. WTF, then the tried to pawn another L39 off on me that they said was in much better condition. Needless to say I politely declined and moved on but was turned off by how aloof they were to the situation.

I am sure there are quality boats for sale there, you just need to make sure you do your due diligence and go in with eyes wide open when purchasing and ex-charter cat. Good luck!

So no survey showed the trouble before hand? Who was your surveyor? I maybe would have used the blown engine as a good way to leverage a new engine. The little yanmars are nothing to pull out of a 39, takes about 1 1/2 hours or so, and easily overhauled. Having a new or rebuilt engine is a plus in my book.

[tuskie]

There's a huge size difference between these 2 models. Have you been aboard each?
I would have thought that a closer match would be the Leopard 39 and the Lagoon 380.

[tuskie]

Leopard 39: LOA 37'6" Beam 19'9" Draft 3'5"
Lagoon 380: LOA 37"11" Beam 21'5" Draft 3'9"
Lagoon 400 LOA 39"3" Beam 23'9" Draft 4'

[BoMoose]

I would view this as an opportunity. I'm in the Moorings owner's program. The phase out program and maintenance available was a BIG part of our decision.

I walked around the base there and saw a PALLET of wheel barrow wheels for their dock carts - they don't just buy wheels one at a time. The outboard on our dinghy was hard to start, I pulled the cover off thinking I would clean the spark plugs, the plugs looked old so I called and told them the outboard needed new plugs. A couple hours later via pick up truck from Road Town to Soper's hole arrived a NEW OUTBOARD. The economy of scale especially at the Road Town base is huge!

I also met a 17 year cruising couple who now live in St Croix. They bought a 38' former Sunsail boat for weekend sailing. They cruised for several weeks around the BVI so as to let problems be revealed. Over time the punch list grew and all the things were fixed!

You can't get what you want if you don't ask - go big!

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by BoMoose

..so I called and told them the outboard needed new plugs. A couple hours later via pick up truck from Road Town to Soper's hole arrived a NEW OUTBOARD. The economy of scale especially at the Road Town base is huge!

Seriously??? A new outboard instead of new plugs?
So who is the poor guy who ordered a new outboard and now received a used one with old plugs?
Or do you think they throw them away?


Why not tell them your diesel engines look a little tired. This might get you a new boat!

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Seriously??? A new outboard instead of new plugs?
So who is the poor guy who ordered a new outboard and now received a used one with old plugs?
Or do you think they throw them away?


Why not tell them your diesel engines look a little tired. This might get you a new boat!

It's all about efficiency. If charter guests lose days on the water the company can lose money (depending on the company/contract). A "new" motor might mean "new" to him, not necessarily a brand new motor.

This makes sense for quite a few reasons. Swapping an outboard is probably easier than swapping plugs, so less down time. The company doesn't know the level of mechanical knowledge of the charter guest so when the guest says "needs new plugs" it could be anything from needing new plugs to a blown motor. And having the ability to work on all the outboards in a central shop location saves time and money, one mechanic in a shop plus a handful of helpers carrying motors around is cheaper than two or three mechanics traveling from boat to boat fixing outboards, plus in a shop all the required tools and parts are right there, no concerns about forgetting that one tool you need, or getting to the boat and finding out that the plugs are fine but the wires are shot.

It's like carrying a spare alternator vs trying to fix the one on the motor, just on a much larger scale.

[danielamartindm]

You can't compare the Leopard 39 to the Lagoon 400, for either price or size. The fairer comparison is the Lagoon 380 with the Leopard 39.

[Rohan]

I have sailed both these boats. Quality wise, they are very much on par with each other. The Lagoon 400 feels much bigger but they both have plenty of space.

If you are a couple, the Leopard 39 will be more than large enough. The Leopard also looks a little nicer. I would get that one unless your family is huge.

It also depends on the layout. I am guessing the Lagoons you are looking at have the 4 cabin, charter layout. But the I think the 4 cabin layout was less popular with the Leopard 39, at least I haven't seen any. You would be happier with the one that has an owner's suite.

[gcaskew]

Thanks Rohan,
With both of them coming from charters the costs are very similar. The Lagoon 40 is huge and the upkeep should be higher than the smaller Leopard. We are looking at the Leopard 39 3 cabin owners version from Moorings.

It would be great to hear from anyone that has purchased from Moorings...

C

[danielamartindm]

When I was shopping for a cat, a few Moorings boats caught my eye, so I looked into them. Of course, a marine survey by someone who's specifically knowledgeable about cats, and a sea trial should precede any final decision on your part. I found out that maintenance of boats by Moorings facilities varies greatly- some places do a decent job, others not so much. Similarly, some of the Moorings brokers are great, while some are too lazy to even compose an accurate ad for the boat in question. I made an offer on one vessel that allegedly had a generator, only to be told that the ad was wrong, and it didn't have a generator. Also, it seemed as though a lot of the Moorings boats had "broken" engine hour meters. The brokers will tell you "Yeah, the meters broke, but we've kept meticulous logbook records of engine hours ever since." Run, don't walk, on those. Why didn't they just fix or replace the instruments? Buying a charter boat is a trade-off. You can get a good deal on a good boat, but the fact that it was a charter boat will follow it, and net you a lesser sale price down the road. Good luck.