List down to 3 boats

[daw3f]

2010 Chris White Designs Atlantic 57 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com listing#.Wowb2kxuLIU

[Southern Star]

TXnewbie, I have no personal experience with any of these boats but can make a few observations about the FP versus the Leopard:

1. The Leopard’s fore and ft cockpits are too small for your family, making the fly bridge the only exterior space sufficient for your purposes. Fine at anchor or in calm conditions, but... The FP, while having a sizeable fly bridge, also has an aft deck that would accomodate your family and provide better motion and protection when underway, or in inclement weather. This is to say nothing of the small forward cockpit that will not shed water in heavy seas as well as the FP.

2. Bridgedeck clearance appears to be better on the FP, although I would want to get the actual specs to confirm. Extremely important to reduce slamming, which will definitely effect you and your family’s comfort on a circumnavigation.

3. The saloon headliner on the Leopard is vinyl covered, untreated plywood which will eventually sag. Especially if, as i was told by a professional captain who maintains a 58, a water tank vent is located under the headliner! I would also seek to confirm that, but if so, a crazy arrangement!

4. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but to me the Leopard is butt-ugly, whereas the FP still maintains pleasing lines for such a huge, commodious boat.

For what it is worth, why don’t you book a crewed charter for you and your family on all three boats ( they are available ) prior to pirchase? Will it delay your departure? Potentially, although your plan to purchase, equip and familiarize yourself with a boat in June ( and depart in July or August?) will leave you in hurricane season if you plan to purchase/depart from the US east coast or the Gulf. Likely not the best option for inexperienced sailors.

Cheers!

Brad

[akprb]

All good choices. Also at that size range 62 no big diff. Just as easy to handle if not easier.

Having crew from time to time privacy an asset.

Look forward to seeing what you decide!

[LagunaRed]

We went through the same process a few years ago and bought a new Lagoon 52F. I'm currently writing this on our boat in the harbor in Georgetown. We are a family of 4 and we didn't want crew on the boat other than for extended passages. The boat has been very easy to sail and we absolutely LOVE the flybridge. In fact, everyone is always up there when sailing as we find it more stable up there. Our two girls sit / lay in the back area of the flybridge watching their iPad's, playing cards and watching the water. I feel very comfortable with them there as we have the enclosed bimini. The boat sails much better than I thought it would, although sometimes (upwind) it's a bit underpowered because of the self-tacking jib.

From a sailing perspective, the downsides are the fact that the boom is high up there and the mainsail is very tall which makes taking the sail up and down a little more work.


The cabins down below are spacious for us and the saloon is really great. We always seem to have all of our friends / the kids on our boat as there is plenty of well thought out space to entertain. Oh, and we love the port aft cabin that opens to the cockpit. We call that the "Granny Flat", as that's where guests and the grandparents stay.

We looked at the L58 and the Lagoon 560 and decided both were a little too much for us to handle on our own. The FP50 didn't seem sturdy enough for us. Since we've taken delivery in 2016, we've sailed over 10,000 miles in our boat and have generally had a good experience. We did add all Lithium Batteries, which I suggest you do no matter what boat you choose (we have 1800 usable amp hours) and we did add a satellite for data. We don't have TV's on board. Finally, a 5 foot draft in the Bahamas is really nice! We can get basically anywhere without losing too much sleep. Good luck in your search!

[SV Bacchus]

Curious if you went on them at the boat show, did any one of the 3 "talk" to you? When we went on a Leopard it spoke to us and we fell in love. Thought we wanted Lagoon but after seeing in person we hated the interior fit & finish, Ugh. Like the space in FP, salon to cockpit. But the Leopard spoke to us.

We bought a Leopard, used, but it still reinforces our decision every day.

[markdbrewer]

Many would agree that the Catana 471 is the ideal cruising cat.
Take a look at: Morrelli & Melvin Yacht Brokerage ? luxury sail and power, multihull, catamaran, trimaran, Leopard, Gunboat, commercial, used boat and water craft sales

[Dolphin460]

I am going to second the thread by Thalas. I am entering my 12th year of cruising on my Dolphin 460 and find it just right for me. But, if you need or want a crew you do need a bigger boat. Just remember that as you go bigger, so do the problems and cost. As you travel around the world you will find that it is very expensive and difficult to find marinas that can take large cats. As Thalas was implying, if your children are young you do not need a huge boat and as they get old you will find that they will spend more time with their friends than with you and your boat. That was my experience with two children and four grandchildren. Happy sailing.

[Emouchet]

What about an Outremer 5X. Check the one Knut Frostad (former Volvo Ocean Race CEO) bought. There are a few videos on YouTube...

[SV Sailfish]

Sounds like this would be the right boat for you. Maybe a little small at 145 feet but hey... "rooms are rooms" as you said...



And it comes with a lifetime supply of Grey Poupon. How can you beat that?

Cheers and good luck!

[ranchero76]

As far as I can see, buzz about "misunderstanding" between cruisers on tiny boats and cruisers traveling with comfort is not just buzz...it's reality.

[Wildcat_Dallas]

Originally Posted by TXnewbie

From Miami we have narrowed our list to 3 boats. We are a family of 5, may have crew with us much of the time. Plan on circumnavigating over 5 to 7 years with stops and stays all over the world to give perspective to the kids.

We have started wanting smaller boats but are concerned with comfort to land on these boats. We will sacrifice "go fast" for the 90 percent of the time we are at a dock or anchored. Over the last year we have been on every boat and option. Not saying there are not other good options but this is our list in order of fit.

1. Leopard 58
2. FP 58
3. Lagoon 560

We have given up on new as we don't have time to wait nor do we have the time to deal with fixing all the warranty issues that come with new. We are happy to pay to fix what breaks so warranty coverage is not our concern. We want a 2015 or newer but could be turned on by a 2012 if well maintained.

My ask to this group is to learn from others who have them if they will fit our needs. Will they take deep water crossings and heavy storms. We will obviously practice avoidance but want to plan for the worse.

Thoughts on these boats...quality...value...etc.

Lastly...anyone know of any pocket listings that are not on yachttrader. Need something by June.

Thanks.

We bought a 2006 Lagoon 570 in 2013 and have been cruising the Eastern Caribbean for the past 5 winter seasons. We are still cruising, but have the boat for sale because we just bought a house in Fla on the ICW, and the cat will not fit in our canal. I blame poor planning. Here is a link
2006 Lagoon 570 sailboat for sale in Outside United States
I agree with your reasons for choosing a 56' cat. We looked at 45' cats and came to the same conclusion, and have never regretted going with a 56' even though it is just the two of us onboard. With power winches and electronic remote throttles for anchoring, it is easier to sail than a 45' cat. Here is a video of us under sail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY47...ature=youtu.be

EZ and fast.

We chose this model over the newer triple deck cats with the flying bridges because we think being offshore on the flying bridge is not safe and the boom is so high that one can not handle the main reefing or furling unless you are a monkey. Our boat actually sails well. The flying bridge models are great for chartering in the BVI's but they do not perform well offshore.

Some things to watch out for on Leopards: The hulls are core below the waterline. Lagoons are solid fiberglass below the waterline. Much stronger and will not absorb water around the thru hull fittings.

I know of two FP's that have blistering below the waterline due to lack of resin in the hull lay up process. One has been repaired twice, and the other was so bad that it is not repairable.

If you get interested in our Lagoon 570, I can send you more data. We are on it in the St Lucia area right now. Load her up with food and beer and she is ready to go around the world right now.

Sail fast, have fun.

George Todd
wildcatter777@gmail.com
1-469-740-2241

[PaulinOz]

From TXnewbie's original post he has all ready done his research, he is not asking for suggestions of boats that may or may not fit his requirements.

Accommodation requirements stated, a vessel to suite a couple with 3 teenagers plus crew most of the time. Necessitating the need for a minimum of 4 cabins plus crew quarters.

Any of the choice of 3, I believe will fit all the requirements for the family, the issue will be time frame and lack of choice. Its not just that you need to find the model you want, it also needs to be the right cabin configuration.

Once again as stated in the original post the need to find, close and take delivery in the next 14 weeks may be an even bigger issue. The number of these size boats currently on the market and being available to chose from is limited and the number of new offerings that will come on the market each month world wide is also very small.

So if you research is spot on and your list of 3 is the correct choice for you. I would be negotiating on the best ones available on the market today to have a half a chance of being afloat by June.

Good luck with the vessel search and the future on the water with the family.

[Scaramanga F25]

Lagoon for sure.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by TXnewbie

That leopard is amazing. It is the most house like boat I have seen. Trying to get the skinny on if your giving up too much for that level of comfort.

My wife and I helped a friend in Tortola deliver a Leopard 58 from Roadtown to St. Thomas. It is definitely a House. On the water. With sails. We didn't like it. You had to go through someone's cabin to get from the salon to the forward deck. (No easy peasy pass through like on the L44, 45 and 48's). The main salon felt closed in and cramped like my first apartment. Nice big screen TV but where's the ocean. As I recall you can't really see forward to the bow from inside the salon. Very much isolated from the sea.

Also the fancy dinghy platform at the stern was not working and the boat was almost brand new. The captain and I tried to get it to work but no go. It appeared very light weight, flimsy and poorly built.

And that fancy teak wood table with wooden chairs for the aft deck? It might be great after a calm Caribbean coastal day cruise but I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that jetsam in anything resembling heavy weather. The up side is it will be a self correcting problem once you encounter blue water. "Did the primary buffer panel just fly off my ship?"

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big Leopard fan. In fact the admiral and I are trying hard to purchase a Leopard 44. I just think the designers went off the rails on the 58 trying to make a floating motel.

My concern is that you might spend a lot of money and later on feel like you would rather have more of a sailboat and less of a houseboat.

Happy boat hunting and have a wonderful adventure.

[Sawbonz]

As to your questions of quality and value, we have ordered our Leopard 45 and can comment on that boat and the company in general, though the 58 is a different animal.

We went to the factory last year and were impressed with the work they did and the way the bosses checked up on everything. I personally feel very confident that build quality is as good as it gets.

As to value, you just can’t argue with their pricing given the difference in wages between South Africa and France. We also looked at all of the others in that size range and prices couldn’t compare. Actually, we had settled on the St Francis but they quoted a price at the Miami show last year and raised it 20% in two weeks with no memory of what they quoted. Then they wanted to be paid in Rand, which today would be $1.3M or so, almost three times what our 45 cost.

Again personally and not trying to change your mind, the 58 may handle well for two of you and all, but the maintenance is bound to be killer. Having to wash that giant boat is one reason we started looking smaller. If that is no deterrent for you, buy what you like and enjoy the heck out of it!