Max Cruise 42

[phillysailor]

Interesting design... hits pricepoint while achieving function and comfortable quick cruising. I appreciated seeing the hybrid option explained in your recent video, and was wondering how such a system might impact your sail and rig selection for the Chesapeake Bay/Florida/Bahamas cruising grounds.

Seems that quiet motor sailing might enable ICW-friendly sail selections which retain the self tacking ability you wish to retain?

[Matt Johnson]

Regardless of drivetrain, I don't think we'll go for an ICW capable rig. From the beginning we planned for a 18m rig with self tacking headsail and screacher, but after more testing, the designer is really pushing for a 17m with a self tacking removable staysail, genoa and code 0 as it's a more well rounded package. We'll test a Max Cruise - hull 9 which is the designer's own boat - first before we decide for sure. Neither of these work for the ICW, but we don't plan on spending much time in the area anyway.

[phillysailor]

Much respect to you for having clear goals which will take you far from the East coast after building your own boat.

My question is: assuming cruising these waters was the goal, how might low-power consumption quiet motor sailing influence rig and sail selection for this boat?

I’m a kinda-solo sailor with a wife who wants a galley with a view looking to retire to either a higher-tech catamaran which facilitates short handed sailing with solar & regen, or a motorsailer type vessel with space for bikes and a good dinghy launching platform.

I wouldn’t be using loose luff sails, but I would want to the ability to make progress in light airs or rainy/nasty weather, hence my question.

I’m assuming I’d end up with a ICW-friendly rig with a self-tacking jib and probably a screecher.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by phillysailor

Much respect to you for having clear goals which will take you far from the East coast after building your own boat.

My question is: assuming cruising these waters was the goal, how might low-power consumption quiet motor sailing influence rig and sail selection for this boat?

I’m a kinda-solo sailor with a wife who wants a galley with a view looking to retire to either a higher-tech catamaran which facilitates short handed sailing with solar & regen, or a motorsailer type vessel with space for bikes and a good dinghy launching platform.

I wouldn’t be using loose luff sails, but I would want to the ability to make progress in light airs or rainy/nasty weather, hence my question.

I’m assuming I’d end up with a ICW-friendly rig with a self-tacking jib and probably a screecher.

Sorry, I totally misread your last post.

If we were going to live along the East Coast in an area that made ICW travel a requirement, then the 16m ICW rig would be a very good choice. But in that case I'd opt for it as designed - large main and genoa and no self tacking sails.

Sailing hull 4 with it's 16m ICW rig felt extremely balanced and powerful. I really think a self tacking headsail would unbalance the boat enough - and depower it enough - that you'd rarely use this jib. They can design the mainsail to bring back balance to the rig, but then you're depowering even more. A self tacking staysail and genoa might be a better option if the demand was there to have something self tack.

Regarding engines - The hybrid is two completely independent drive systems. If you want long range, run on the diesel. If you want silent run on electric. I really can't see a negative except for a more complex electrical side and cost.

Max Cruise is also doing one hybrid in the port hull and an electric motor in the starboard. We ran some tests with this system, and with one hybrid's diesel propelling the boat and acting as a generator (@1400 rpm), we were able to go 6.1 kts by sending the extra 48v generated to the starboard's electric drive. So you get a more efficient diesel load, low fuel burn, and still going 6.1 without anything coming out of the battery bank . I think this would be the ultimate ICW package.

Hybrid in one hull and diesel in other is also an option if you just want to test the waters with hybrid. It still a great generator replacement; It allows a bit of electric drive when wanted; and you can do regeneration.... seems like a nice way to dip a toe into hybrids.

Matt

[phillysailor]

Gotcha, and I appreciate your insights. Kinda cool that Max Cruise are reducing the number of Diesel engines in a catamaran from potentially three to just one.

Yes there is increased electrical complexity and software dependence in order for all systems to remain operational.

But the reduction of spares, filters, impellers, maintenance and diesel spills is a worthy goal. Electric motors themselves seem to be more reliable than the other parts of the system that power them, so it will be fascinating to watch these boats and learn from their example.

All the best with your progress… I’ve built a 20’ plywood/epoxy multihull and can only imagine the geometric increase in complexity you’re “enjoying.”

Hat definitely tipped to you both.

[AST]

Matt,
Thanks for all this information. I m a follower on your youtube and have to say very informational videos. Few questions if I may.

1- You mentioned that a turn key is about $550,000. Is that if it was build by Max? Have you tried to see if other builders would build it for less?

2- I noticed it was a struggle to get the parts out of containers when they arrived. Knowing what you know now, how would you have better prepare yourself for it?

3- So the kit is 150k, what would you think your total cost would be (excluding your time of course) to finish the boat.

Thanks

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by AST

Matt,
Thanks for all this information. I m a follower on your youtube and have to say very informational videos. Few questions if I may.

1- You mentioned that a turn key is about $550,000. Is that if it was build by Max? Have you tried to see if other builders would build it for less?

2- I noticed it was a struggle to get the parts out of containers when they arrived. Knowing what you know now, how would you have better prepare yourself for it?

3- So the kit is 150k, what would you think your total cost would be (excluding your time of course) to finish the boat.

Thanks

I'm not sure if $550k is the current factory price - you'll have to check with them. That was the introductory price, but material/labor cost have gone up, so that may have changed.

Unfortunately, my cost figures are so skewed from our equipment choices and Youtube related discounts/sponsorship that I'm no longer sure of what normal equipment costs would be for anyone else. But for a boat equipped like the basic "turn key" factory model, I think around $300k in material/kit is probably close.

The "kits" are now further finished than ours. They now fully set them up in the factory, trim and mark bulkhead locations, and then pack them neater than what you saw in the video - ours was the first and they've learned a lot of about customer's capabilities in handling the pieces. I think we would have saved 6 months of labor just with the changes made to the kit.

[Cheyne]

On Yacht World there are some ads for new Max Cruise boats.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/202...44-sc-7751250/

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/202...ybrid-9449109/

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/202...48-sc-8971803/

[AST]

So according to the first link, you can get a new one for 600k. And that with 2 feet extension.
Can one get any other brand new 44' cat for 600k?

[AST]

So according to the first link, you can get a new one for 600k. And that with 2 feet extension.
Can one get any other brand new 44' cat for 600k?

[Cheyne]

The first one I believe is a demo model that they have in the US. It was in the Bahamas at the same time we were there. I would have zero interest in it since it has two Yamaha outboards for the engines. I have spoken to Matt about it and not a great config.

Cheyne

[Matt Johnson]

Both of these boats are demos. The first is the USA demo that sailed from Vietnam to Florida two years ago. It's a great configuration for Florida/Bahamas sailing, but not necessarily set-up for long distance cruising with outboards. It has daggerboards, kick-up rudders and the ICW friendly 16m rig.

The second boat is the demo boat for Thailand. Hybrid engine in port and electric motor in starboard. Mini keels with fixed rudders and a 17m rig.

Both are well equipped with watermaker, clothes washer, air conditioners, multiple fridge/freezers and good sails.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by AST

So according to the first link, you can get a new one for 600k. And that with 2 feet extension.
Can one get any other brand new 44' cat for 600k?

I'm not sure if they are selling the boats without the 2' extensions. The "kit" was originally drawn at 42', but everyone has gone with the extension so far, so it is probably standard now.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Matt Johnson

Both of these boats are demos. The first is the USA demo that sailed from Vietnam to Florida two years ago. It's a great configuration for Florida/Bahamas sailing, but not necessarily set-up for long distance cruising with outboards. It has daggerboards, kick-up rudders and the ICW friendly 16m rig.

The second boat is the demo boat for Thailand. Hybrid engine in port and electric motor in starboard. Mini keels with fixed rudders and a 17m rig.

Both are well equipped with watermaker, clothes washer, air conditioners, multiple fridge/freezers and good sails.

Why do long distance cats need diesels and not outboards, unless they are slow enough to be considered predominately motorsailors? Obviously she sailed from Vietnam to Florida?

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by smj

Why do long distance cats need diesels and not outboards, unless they are slow enough to be considered predominately motorsailors? Obviously she sailed from Vietnam to Florida?

I second this.


Despite the prejudice there are huge advantages for using outboards especially for cats.


Light weight

Zero drag while sailing
Ease of maintenance

Compete removal for repair
Good sailing boats hardly ever need to motor