Multihull or Monohull

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by mellowboat

What are you considering shallow draft? I have been sailing a 16 foot centerboard mono for a number of years and am considering buying a 30 foot mono with a 4 foot draft. Where does this fall, shallow -deep or in-between? I really want to hear what you think.

4 foot on a 30 footer is not deep, but not shallow either. IMO in-between, but towards the shallower end of in-between!

FWIW, me is 30' and draw 3' 6" - which is fairly shallow. But that dictated by the triple keels - over here we built our harbours on dry land , at least for the half the day so I needed a boat that didn't fall over when tide goes out! But I still don't park her anywhere and expect no consequences, for obvious(?) reasons. A couple have been RTW, that more to do with the overall boat design (and Skipper) than purely keel depth.

A number of models were built with a single keel - at 4' 6", which IMO is probably about right - certainly they are meant to sail a bit better, carrying a taller mast no doubt also helps.

IMO "Too deep" is when the draft becomes a constant PITA in your locale / cruising area. "Too shallow" is when she sails sideways .

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

very very good on fuel.

...mmm...on our 'delivery' voyage (Sardinia to Sydney, via the Panama Canal) we travelled ~14000nm and consumed ~1500 litres of fuel...

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by D&D

...mmm...on our 'delivery' voyage (Sardinia to Sydney, via the Panama Canal) we travelled ~14000nm and consumed ~1500 litres of fuel...

I used the Leopard 474 Power Cat the same way I use my Mahe 36 Sail Cat. Only one engine at a time.

Ran the 47 power cat a 2000 rpm and we did 7.5 to 9 knots for the 10 day trip

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Highland Fling

I do like cats for the sort of cruising i do Caribbean where i try hard not to have to beat to windward (not that i succeed all the time) i am NOT totally convinced they are the best for cross ocean stuff nor was SD and MORE IMPORTANTLY the Admiral is NOT a cat fan.

IF i had a cat it would need to have decent performance 12/18 knots easily obtainable - much faster than your average production (made for the charter market) cat AND be appealing to The Admiral. So far only one cat has made the grade a Chris White Atlantic 48 and it is way out of any sensible budget that we could/would consider. When i finish this years six month cruise in the Caribbean i will look into the DIX 48 and 55 foot cats they 'might' meet all the various and opposing requirements of myself and The Admiral. I would be happy with a L470 she might be happy with a R&C 46 M4600 but i am not sure if it would be fast enough for me.........rephrase that we sailed past one today and left it for dead...........but would it sail better with me at the helm probably but who knows - i have been left feeling underwhelmed and jaded will most of the run of the mill production cats i have sailed on. I like the look of the R&C 46 M4600 and the way they are well sorted for my sort of cruising area but if they cant go to windward then well the sensible logical answer is the R&C 47 PC M474 PC is probably what we need. Seems SD has decided the same and ditched the big white things.

My Admiral loves the way our monohull sails through the waves and is NOT a big cat fan

Good luck and keep looking you will eventually find what you need wether it a sail cat or PC. Sounds like bulk production cats are not for you as need more of a racer. Dudley Dix look good, The Dazcat Ocean 47 would be worth a look, as well as larger Schonnings, Freeflow , Kurt Hughes, Grainger, Kelsall, and other designs. Get a good design you like and find a good custom builder. 48ft Oram would fit the bill.

Designs SO47

[Highland Fling]

Originally Posted by downunder

Good luck and keep looking you will eventually find what you need wether it a sail cat or PC. Sounds like bulk production cats are not for you as need more of a racer. Dudley Dix look good, The Dazcat Ocean 47 would be worth a look, as well as larger Schonnings, Freeflow , Kurt Hughes, Grainger, Kelsall, and other designs. Get a good design you like and find a good custom builder. 48ft Oram would fit the bill.

Designs SO47

Strange as it may seem DAZ Cats dont do it for me and yes they are fast and i also dont like Gunboats. Of the Lagoons it is the 470 that appeals most and had a wee look at a L450 today was quite shocked as from a distance it looked like the new L400 very short and dumpy side on with masses of freeboard - i dont remember thinking like that about the 440......also today the anchorage at Tintamarre was a real cattery with three Nautech 47's four or five Lagoons 380 410 and 450 a Catana or two and a few Privilege cats inc a 615 - nice 'looking' boat and of course a few FP cats as well as two one offs plus an older small Voyage - a 38 i think and a few Moorings Cats of various ages and sizes and one Sunsail 38

[downunder]

I agree re Dazcat generally but the souther Ocean 47 looks different and has some similar/newer concepts similar to Outremmer 49 & new 55, Freeflow 46/52. Could be reasonably priced too.

Cheers

[BILL_S]

Thanks, this sounds like good info, "3.5 ft or less in the bahamas" I have been concentrating on smaller cats which would be my preference or shallow draft monohulls

[BILL_S]

Thank you, have not heard of half of the cats you listed, now I have some more to research.

[BILL_S]

Originally Posted by Sea Yawl Later

Bill, welcome to the wonderful world of opinions... lol You chose a great subject. I'm sure a search on this forum will provide plenty to think about.

I drive a 33' Cat that draws 3 1/2 feet. I do advise drawing less than 4.5' in the Bahamas. You can go more places and have twice the route options as a 6' boat... I've done two 6 month tours so far in the Bahamas.

A freind of mine had a wonderful 38' Katy Crogan swing keel Mononhull that was a great "shoal draft" option, so you don't HAVE to drive a cat to go shallow, but when your aground, a cat sits flat..... and is nice to beach (if your keels are good for it) like mine are.

Oh, by the way, if your looking at being on a boat for an extended period... the liveability totem pole looks like this: Catamaran / Monohull / then Trimaran at the bottom...

Enjoy the fourm....

SYL

Thank you, I see that some cats like the catana have daggerboards do you know which other brands have them?

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by BILL_S

Thank you, I see that some cats like the catana have daggerboards do you know which other brands have them?

Outremer and Gemini. Gemini has pivoting boards so most of us call them centerboards. Lots of customs and smaller builders have them and these can be really good deals.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by D&D

...mmm...on our 'delivery' voyage (Sardinia to Sydney, via the Panama Canal) we travelled ~14000nm and consumed ~1500 litres of fuel...

That's about like a Hybrid car! ~ 38mpg.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

That's about like a Hybrid car! ~ 38mpg.

What else can we say...she likes to swim with the wind!

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Outremer and Gemini. Gemini has pivoting boards so most of us call them centerboards. Lots of customs and smaller builders have them and these can be really good deals.

I forgot Dolphin. They have the 460 and 600 (46' and 60'). These boats seem to hold their value well. The downside is a used 460 will cost you a half mill.

[Thumbs Up]

I was going to post this under cons of owning a cat but that thread is closed, so I will weigh in here. I own a 40' cat. Plywood. Designed by John Hitch (Australian). Built in South Africa (1996). I have been living, cruising, and working on it for 14 months now. Someday I will sell it (I would sell it now for $150,000). Every boat is a compromise. You have to take the good with the bad. I owned a little mono that I loved to sail and I still like monos. Got to sail at 24 knots on a 56 cat in the Kauai Channel with a spinnaker up! Great fun! Nice to do that on other peoples boats. (we shredded that kite, cost him $5,000 for a new one). My wife is terrified of sailing, especially heeling. She said she would only go if we could get a multi-hull. Looked at cats, too expensive for us. Searched for homebuilt tris, 36'-40' Searunners, great sailing boats if you can find a good one. Almost bought a 36. We dismasted it during the sea trial. Found our boat on Yachtworld,it had just been listed. A project boat, but with some really nice features, two heads, galley up etc. Great boat to live on and it sails good (downwind or on a reach). Plenty of room. Here are some of my opinions:
1. If you are an "armchair sailor" and like to dream up your ultimate boat and cost is no object, dream big! definitely go for a big fancy cat! In terms of houselike comforts on a sailboat big cats can't be beat.
2. Those big vertical "ugly" wraparound windows that you see on Lagoons and some FP's are really a great feature. You can see where you are going from inside the boat which makes them much safer and easier to stand watch.
3. Twin engines, Love them, especially for docking. I don't know if I could dock a big monohull in a tricky situation without damaging something and worries about sudden engine failure are about nil. They motor along pretty good with only one. I can actually spin my boat around in it's own length!
4. It is true that you can leave your drink on the table through whole passages but the motion aboard a cat can't be described as comfortable. It is more of a jerky sensation.
5. In order for a Cat to perform well it must be built very lightly. The use of modern materials and engineering has solved this but think about this: You are capable of twice the speed or more but the impact resistance of your hulls is probably less than half that of a heavily built mono so if you hit a floating log or something the chance of major damage is a lot more. You won't sink but it will be very expensive.
6. You can't put wind vane self steering on a cat. You have to rely on electric autopilot and you need a pretty hefty one at that.
7. It is true that you have a more space but you can't bring a lot of weight without sacrificing performance and comfortable motion underway.
8. I really don't think that people with little or no sailing experience or time at sea should go out and buy a big cat unless you can afford a professional captain to go along with. These boats are dangerous in the wrong hands, less forgiving to operator error, and expensive to buy, store and maintain. In a lot of ways they are the ultimate cruising machine but they can also drag you down.
9. If you are going to cruise the world in a big, fancy, rich guy boat, you will really have to watch your back because you will definitely be more of a target for thieves, pirates, kidnappers, etc. Remember, you will have to anchor your boat in lots of funky places, leave your dinghy on shore, sleep at night with the hatches open with all kinds of very poor people watching you live in luxury and they can't always resist the temptation to relieve you of some of your wealth.
10. Bridgedeck clearance. You see some big cats with very little bridgedeck clearance, some have center pods that stick in the water, some have hulls that flare out over the waterline. Then you have little cats with hardly any bridgedeck clearance, cats that are decked over forward (no tramps). Even big cats with plenty of clearance slap sometimes and some cats slap violently to the point where you wonder how they can actually hold together. Some cats even slap at anchor. It is true that one couple (slapdash?) circumnavigated on a Gemini but did you ever take a look at some of there video footage? It is true that the builder crossed the North Atlantic on one but he said that he would never want to do it again! Don't get me wrong Gemini's are really neat boats for what they are but slapping is a huge problem on a lot of these boats and can be more than just a little annoying, in the wrong conditions it could actually tear your boat apart!
There does seem to be a lot of people considering buying catamarans these days. That is great, for me (I'll be selling one). I love our boat with two hulls, we have a teenage son and our boat has a lot of privacy between the two hulls. Part of the reason I am writing this is I am procrastinating going out and stripping down another acre or so of deck that I am refinishing. Sometimes I look out with envy at nice looking classic 30 something foot monohulls, how sweet the lines are, how gracefully they sail, relatively easy to maintain, available for a song due to expensive marinas being crammed full of them and the owners want out. You can dream all you want about building the ultimate boat, saving up to by the ultimate boat, designing the ultimate boat. Most boatbuilders don't do much boating, they spent all their time building. The point here is that the ultimate boat is not a cat or a mono or tri. The Ultimate boat is the one that you have. If you want to go cruising you can already be doing it. It doesn't matter what kind of boat you have. It doesn't matter if you don't go around the world. Cruising is more about making do with what you have and self reliance. It is about making it to the next port or anchorage, fixing stuff without the proper resources, provisioning, and waiting for the right weather so you can do it again. It is not about sailing magazines and the ultimate gear and the ultimate boat (which you can never afford). I highly recommend: Turn of the computer, throw away the magazines, go down to the water, go sailing anyway you can. You can crew on a race boat, go fishing with someone, dinghy sailing, windsurf, go along on a sea trial, help with a delivery, rent a boat, whatever it takes to hone your seamanship so that if you do get a cruising boat you will actually have the confidence to operate it. I know that this thread has been beaten to death (it is actually a good thing that I procrastinated because now it is raining) and sorry for the mini novel. If anybody has actually read this far and you live somewhere cold with no body of water to sail on and you want to take a mini vacation to see what cruising on a budget is about you can come sail with us for a week or two for way less than any charter and believe me, we could use the money! Just send us a message, we'll either be going through Belize or sailing to the Bay Islands next month (great snorkeling and scuba diving). Then we will be going up Guatemala's Rio Dulce river. We are on the Caribbean coast of Mexico now. Phil aboard Thumb's Up

[Sand crab]

+1 Thumbs up. I'm not going to quote you. That was like the War and Peace of posts.
I forgot the Maine Cat 41 which is one of my all time favs of daggerboard cats. One is for sale privately for $350,000.