My Multihull Rigging Thread

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I think that’s a twing also.



But instead of a cartoon it’s a real life picture. I real life version. Thanks for posting. So I can’t have a self Tacker with one of those. Or maybe I really don’t need that thing except in very certain circumstances. Otherwise I can self tack in all the other regular circumstances.

I believe it would be considered an outhaul?
We didn’t need to pull the jib lead over to far on this point of sail, just enough to get all telltales flying.
I’m guessing if your self trackers track is long enough and placed correctly you wouldn’t need an outhaul. But if not, it may help.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

I believe it would be considered an outhaul?
We didn’t need to pull the jib lead over to far on this point of sail, just enough to get all telltales flying.
I’m guessing if your self trackers track is long enough and placed correctly you wouldn’t need an outhaul. But if not, it may help.

Could be. I don’t know the The Terminology. I just know it’s a little ring that pulls on the sheet. Ha ha.

But yeah that’s what I’m thinking. Just have the self tracker and have the back up of the outhaul to use when needed.

Your boat is really cool by the way. I always knew it was a good one, but it looks really fun to sail.

[Noahr]

Depends how complicated you want to get on sheeting angle adjustment? Lots of ways out there.

[Coltrek]

Have you seen the CamberSpars on the Manta Catamarans? They have an internal self-vanging boom, but you have to go forward to handle it, unlike a roller furler.

[torrmundi]

Chotu,

I have jib booms that allow auto-tacking. Four control lines are used: outhaul, main sheet, and two vangs, port/stb. The main sheet is on a short traveler to facilitate autotacking.

The pictures are on a 170 deg AWA, by the lee. That's because was wing and wing. Since the leg was short, I didn't add a tweaker to bring the boom wider, but frequently will do that.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

It’s really a tough call about wanting self tacking or not. I think I do. But I often set up things and never tack. I’m a cruiser. I'm lazy.

Unless you are planning on lots of short tacking up and down channels then the benefits to a lazy sailor are lost. The minute you bear off or head off the wind you will need an additional sail to make up for the small area of a self tacker. A 110-115% on a furler with tight sheeting angles will still allow fuss free tacking and efficient progress to windward but will be much more useful on all other points of sail. You wont be wishing for another sail as you frustratedly laze in the cockpit. Putting in a tack while out "cruising" is a rare event and when really necessary tacking every 10Nm or so is hardly a chore.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Unless you are planning on lots of short tacking up and down channels then the benefits to a lazy sailor are lost. The minute you bear off or head off the wind you will need an additional sail to make up for the small area of a self tacker. A 110-115% on a furler with tight sheeting angles will still allow fuss free tacking and efficient progress to windward but will be much more useful on all other points of sail. You wont be wishing for another sail as you frustratedly laze in the cockpit. Putting in a tack while out "cruising" is a rare event and when really necessary tacking every 10Nm or so is hardly a chore.

this is a pretty good point.

my solution to this was to have a screecher on a sprit for the more lazy type of use.

That should cover it, right?

so the sail plan is mainsail, self tacker, screecher and symmetrical Spinnaker.

In my first visit to the Rigger this spring, it will just be the self Tacker. Before I go and invest all the money into the sprit and screecher side of things.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Putting in a tack while out "cruising" is a rare event and when really necessary tacking every 10Nm or so is hardly a chore.

I think that depends on the definition of "out cruising." Ocean crossings, for sure. Probably even applies to coastal hops, where the "offshore" tack is unlimited. Our home waters are the Chesapeake Bay, and if the wind is in the northern half (or the southern half...) of the compass, you have a 50/50 chance of beating to get to your destination. That entails tacks every 5 miles or so. You get off the main stem of the Bay, and those legs drop to a mile or two.

Even in Caribbean destinations, that applies. We chartered for a week in the British Virgins, and there are enough islands in the way that if you were going in an upwind direction, the tacks are still short.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

this is a pretty good point.

my solution to this was to have a screecher on a sprit for the more lazy type of use.

That should cover it, right?

so the sail plan is mainsail, self tacker, screecher and symmetrical Spinnaker.

In my first visit to the Rigger this spring, it will just be the self Tacker. Before I go and invest all the money into the sprit and screecher side of things.

A good sail plan but the screecher is only good for 10-12 knots apparent that IMO will leave you with a big hole between 12-18 knots which is the sweet spot for most cats.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

A good sail plan but the screecher is only good for 10-12 knots apparent that IMO will leave you with a big hole between 12-18 knots which is the sweet spot for most cats.

so I should get a genniker?

not sure how to fill the hole.

Do they make more durable screechers? They can be used in more wind?

And wait a second. Wouldn't the self tacker be just fine in those winds?

those are already starting to get a bit excessive. So, the screecher is probably too much sail area anyway right?

So going down to the self Tacker might be OK? With the main? I would probably already have a reef in because my rig is huge too at the 18 knots end of things, yes?

I guess that’s the point of this summer. I’m going to try the boat out and see what works and what doesn’t. I just don’t know.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I think that depends on the definition of "out cruising." Ocean crossings, for sure. Probably even applies to coastal hops, where the "offshore" tack is unlimited. Our home waters are the Chesapeake Bay, and if the wind is in the northern half (or the southern half...) of the compass, you have a 50/50 chance of beating to get to your destination. That entails tacks every 5 miles or so. You get off the main stem of the Bay, and those legs drop to a mile or two.

Even in Caribbean destinations, that applies. We chartered for a week in the British Virgins, and there are enough islands in the way that if you were going in an upwind direction, the tacks are still short.

On the Bay down this way, I usually tack maybe once every 20 miles or so.

If you aren't buoy racing, no need for self tacking in most cases.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

so I should get a genniker?

not sure how to fill the hole.

Do they make more durable screechers? They can be used in more wind?

And wait a second. Wouldn't the self tacker be just fine in those winds?

those are already starting to get a bit excessive. So, the screecher is probably too much sail area anyway right?

So going down to the self Tacker might be OK? With the main? I would probably already have a reef in because my rig is huge too at the 18 knots end of things, yes?

I guess that’s the point of this summer. I’m going to try the boat out and see what works and what doesn’t. I just don’t know.

In my experience cats with self tackers are underpowered when sailing anything other than hard on the wind between 12 knots and when you expect to put in the first reef (18-26knots depending on boat). Hence my suggestion for a moderately overlapping working jib 115-120 that will not be too arduous to tack instead of a self tacker. If you boat is light and fast the screecher will work in very light winds. Make sure you can sheet it in far enough that you can cope with the apparent wind as it is pulled forward. As an example my screecher will pull down to 35 degrees app. Above 12 knots apparent my full jib (115%) and full main covers nicely up to first reef. I would not think your light boat would benefit much from a gennaker.


You mentioned 18knots as your first reef point. Is this a guess or is this from the designer based on what sail plan?

[rslifkin]

If you rig the hardware to run either the self tacker or a more standard sheeting setup, then you're not locked in. You can always change later, or carry both a self tacker and a bigger genoa and switch based on where you're going and whether you're likely to find yourself short tacking through a confined area.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

In my experience cats with self tackers are underpowered when sailing anything other than hard on the wind between 12 knots and when you expect to put in the first reef (18-26knots depending on boat). Hence my suggestion for a moderately overlapping working jib 115-120 that will not be too arduous to tack instead of a self tacker. If you boat is light and fast the screecher will work in very light winds. Make sure you can sheet it in far enough that you can cope with the apparent wind as it is pulled forward. As an example my screecher will pull down to 35 degrees app. Above 12 knots apparent my full jib (115%) and full main covers nicely up to first reef. I would not think your light boat would benefit much from a gennaker.


You mentioned 18knots as your first reef point. Is this a guess or is this from the designer based on what sail plan?

there is absolutely nothing in the plans about how to use the boat. I believe that’s up to the individual user.

Plans don’t tell you when to reef.

i’ll be reefing pretty early because I’m single handing and I have one of those boats they can go belly up really really easily.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

there is absolutely nothing in the plans about how to use the boat. I believe that’s up to the individual user.

Plans don’t tell you when to reef.

i’ll be reefing pretty early because I’m single handing and I have one of those boats they can go belly up really really easily.

Does KH not give any idea about the dynamic stability?


Give us some idea about what we are dealing with what is the CL beam, mainsail area, mast height, for-triangle, weight, Any idea where the CE for various sail combinations and CLR will be?