My Multihull Rigging Thread

[Chotu]

So, even working with a really high level professional guy, I still have lots of decisions to make. And they are not easy because I have no idea what to do with them.

So the first decision I have to make is about the self tacking blade jib.

he’s asking me if I should put a boom under it or not. The other alternative would be some twin adjustment points and blocks? Are those like those little slides that you have on a traveler a lot of times? The ones you have to set manually?

Edit: I found out what a twing is. seems like that is the better way to go to me. Better than dealing with an extra boom.

i’m going to copy and paste his question and a little drawing of the dimensions here in this post.

I don’t even know what to answer because I don’t know if the boom is the right thing or not. I don’t usually see them.

if any of you have a self tacking jib, or know much about them, could you let me know what yours does? what set up you are using?

Here is his question to me:


"Harken has a 12 ft track and a 6 m track... I think 12 foot will be sufficient for your needs on the foresail. It will need to be cut in 2 parts unless you want $700 in shipping added to that bill We will need to connect the track on the boat, which should be fine. I have done it before. Here is a dimensional drawing of a 12' track bent to the 14.5 foot radius from the Stem Fitting. But honestly we will need to look closely at the sail you have. I am sure it is not cut right for this and will need to be recut to work property with this radius dimension. With a self tacking jib, without boom under it, there is no adjustment for proper sheeting angle when partially reefed. Do you want to look at a headsail boom under the sail, of are you ok with maybe a cheaper option of some twing adjustment points and snatch blocks to deal with this when partially roller reefed. Otherwise it will flutter the leech of the sail to death rapidly if you reef it 1/4 to 1/2 way. Also sail should have a foam luff or rope luff installed if roller reefing is on the agenda.


Just want to be sure you are understanding the effects of the choices made and possible alternative solutions for the tradeoffs for those options."


and I am not understanding what the best way to proceed would be.

[fxykty]

You will eventually buy a proper jib that is designed to be used with roller furling and it will designed for a fixed jib sheet lead (clew rises as the sail is furled to maintain the proper angle). Given that assumption, don’t design for a jib boom!

Until you get a proper jib, it’s not that big a deal to add a couple of LFRs to each side that you can adjust up/down and in/out. On broad reaches you’ll want them anyway because you will want to position the clew beyond the end of the track. Heck, you could get rid of the traveler and just use the floating lead sheets, but then you lose self tacking.

The bigger question is do you want a self tacking jib 95% or a larger genoa 120-130% as your primary headsail? We have a self tacking jib and in less than 10 knots TWS we are under powered (that said, our rig is not that big). We sometimes wish we had an overlapping genoa to have better performance in the light winds. But not enough to make the change.

However, no furling sail retains much shape beyond 20% furled, so in the case of a genoa you would need a staysail that corresponds to your 95% jib or perhaps a bit smaller, depending on the depth of roller furling reefing that still allows for decent sail shape. And that sail could be self tacking.

For reference, we have a structural forestay, which means we cannot reef our headsails. We have a 95% jib, 55% staysail, and 18% storm jib. The crossover wind strengths are (AWS) 25-30 kts and 40-45 kts. The staysail and storm jib share an inner forestay furler that sits immediately behind our front beam. Swapping between sails means going forward to the front beam.

[Benz]

Many boats are moving away from travellers and relying instead on jib lead controls that go in-and-outboard and up-and-down. Perhaps that's what they're calling the twing. It saves a bundle on expensive and heavy track, and the angle can be fine-tuned in anger.
Not sure if they can be made self-tacking, but you can't have everything, and you will have an awesome line-control table.

[Chotu]

I am sorry for the misleading statement in the opening message. He was talking about putting extra bolt rope on the jib. It doesn’t need it. It lived on that Furler. That’s where it came from to begin with. So, that part is a little bit erroneous.


this is what I came up with for a twing. just a little thing that tugs on the sheet at the right angle so that you can sheet it at the right angle.




is that the same thing as the inboard outboard jib lead controls?

[Chotu]

It’s really a tough call about wanting self tacking or not. I think I do. But I often set up things and never tack. I’m a cruiser. I'm lazy.

what I do is I set my course, then I adjust the sails to match the weather usually.

The weather changes along the route. Wind direction, wind strength. But I stay on the same heading. And I adjust the sails and change them based on the weather that I experience on that course.

Since I’m not a racer, I don’t set the course to take best advantage of the wind. I just go in a straight line. Very lazy.

I like to do as little as possible. I like to relax when I’m on the way. That’s what makes it so enjoyable.


That said: Having a self Tacker and only having to worry about turning to tack could change my approach. I might beat my way to Windward in those cases.

Does that help shed any light on the use case?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

It’s really a tough call about wanting self tacking or not. I think I do. But I often set up things and never tack. I’m a cruiser. I'm lazy.

what I do is I set my course, then I adjust the sails to match the weather usually.

The weather changes along the route. Wind direction, wind strength. But I stay on the same heading. And I adjust the sails and change them based on the weather that I experience on that course.

Since I’m not a racer, I don’t set the course to take best advantage of the wind. I just go in a straight line. Very lazy.

I like to do as little as possible. I like to relax when I’m on the way. That’s what makes it so enjoyable.

In my opinion, self tacking is all about ease of sailing in confined waters where you have to tack frequently. Basically, it moves the threshold where you say "screw it, I'll just motor". If you're planning on mostly open water sailing and not worried about that, I'd skip the self tacking setup and leave yourself the option to run a larger jib in the future if desired.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In my opinion, self tacking is all about ease of sailing in confined waters where you have to tack frequently. Basically, it moves the threshold where you say "screw it, I'll just motor". If you're planning on mostly open water sailing and not worried about that, I'd skip the self tacking setup and leave yourself the option to run a larger jib in the future if desired.

that was the whole idea of building this boat actually. Trying to push back the "screw it, I'll motor" wall.

Historically throughout my entire sailing life there has never been enough wind. Only on a very rare 5% occasion. so building a fast boat was to make it so I’m able to sail in lighter winds.

That’s a good 50,000 foot view of this question. The mission objective is to sail more often than motoring.

and couldn’t I just roll up the self tacker and fly something else in situations where I feel underpowered?

I mean, if I had a set up like you would use for an asymmetrical, it seems like I could also fly I’d Genoa off of the same thing. Or a screecher actually.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

that was the whole idea of building this boat actually. Trying to push back the "screw it, I'll motor" wall.

Historically throughout my entire sailing life there has never been enough wind. Only on a very rare 5% occasion. so building a fast boat was to make it so I’m able to sail in lighter winds.

That’s a good 50,000 foot view of this question. The mission objective is to sail more often than motoring.

and couldn’t I just roll up the self tacker and fly something else in situations where I feel underpowered?

I mean, if I had a set up like you would use for an asymmetrical, it seems like I could also fly I’d Genoa off of the same thing. Or a screecher actually.

You could absolutely do a Solent rig if your rigger thinks it's practical with your mast, crossbeam setup, etc. Or leave the option of adding a short bowsprit and another forestay later. Then you could have the self tacker on the inner stay and a bigger genoa (or a better light air sail) out in front of it for when you need more drive.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

You could absolutely do a Solent rig if your rigger thinks it's practical with your mast, crossbeam setup, etc. Or leave the option of adding a short bowsprit and another forestay later. Then you could have the self tacker on the inner stay and a bigger genoa (or a better light air sail) out in front of it for when you need more drive.

yes. I’m actually viewing this as a two-part project here.

i’m going to go in and get this thing sailing. I’m going to use it for the summer. I’m going to find out what things I like and don’t like about the rig. Then I’m going to come back through again with an informed checklist and see if I can get some other adjustments made like probably a bow sprit. Almost everybody has one and uses it. Then I could put a screecher on that or something.

My Rigger also thinks I made a mistake with the symmetrical spinnaker. So I will use that all summer and see what it is like.

[smj]

110% jib, but this works well for maintaining sail shape.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I am sorry for the misleading statement in the opening message. He was talking about putting extra bolt rope on the jib. It doesn’t need it. It lived on that Furler. That’s where it came from to begin with. So, that part is a little bit erroneous.


this is what I came up with for a twing. just a little thing that tugs on the sheet at the right angle so that you can sheet it at the right angle.




is that the same thing as the inboard outboard jib lead controls?

That picture shows an in-hauler, presumes the track is as far out as ever needed. The alternative that probably makes more sense on a cat is an out-hauler. You would make that also pulling down, so the further out you pull the sheet the further down it goes. Not self tacking of course.

Regarding our 95% self tacking jib we do have a relatively flat screecher that set off the bow pole and sails to 45* AWA in light winds. However, the size of that sail means that our TWA is 80*. A smaller screecher sheeting further forward and inboard is on the wish list.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Chotu

…



My Rigger also thinks I made a mistake with the symmetrical spinnaker. So I will use that all summer and see what it is like.

Your rigger is thinking performance cat and perhaps racing, where a fat-headed asymmetric spinnaker with mainsail is used to gybe fast angles (~145* AWA) downwind. But for cruising, downwind running with a symmetric spinnaker and no mainsail cannot be beat.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by fxykty

That picture shows an in-hauler, presumes the track is as far out as ever needed. The alternative that probably makes more sense on a cat is an out-hauler. You would make that also pulling down, so the further out you pull the sheet the further down it goes. Not self tacking of course.

Regarding our 95% self tacking jib we do have a relatively flat screecher that set off the bow pole and sails to 45* AWA in light winds. However, the size of that sail means that our TWA is 80*. A smaller screecher sheeting further forward and inboard is on the wish list.

yes. Definitely a different set up because this is on a monohull here.

so I agree. It’s an out hauler on mine. Just wanted to get a picture of what a twing is.

I guess this is why I would need to get it up there and just try at all. So I can have a wish list also. I’ve got to get some hands-on experience to understand this stuff better.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I am sorry for the misleading statement in the opening message. He was talking about putting extra bolt rope on the jib. It doesn’t need it. It lived on that Furler. That’s where it came from to begin with. So, that part is a little bit erroneous.


this is what I came up with for a twing. just a little thing that tugs on the sheet at the right angle so that you can sheet it at the right angle.




is that the same thing as the inboard outboard jib lead controls?

That's it right there, but you can eliminate the track and car, and just have the lead ring with as many lines to tweak it as many ways as you like.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

110% jib, but this works well for maintaining sail shape.
Attachment 271226

I think that’s a twing also.

But instead of a cartoon it’s a real life picture. I real life version. Thanks for posting. So I can’t have a self Tacker with one of those. Or maybe I really don’t need that thing except in very certain circumstances. Otherwise I can self tack in all the other regular circumstances.