Visit our Popular Forums

Factor · 09-04-2023, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingforfun

I’ve always been of the opinion, if you are sailing you are not in a hurry, so be comfortable. I’ve always owned Lagoons.

Its not about sailing fast - its about sailing when others are motoring

capnmatt · 15-04-2023, 12:27

Back from our charter so thought I'd post with my additional observations on the 44 Open.

First, I will say the boat seemed a bit faster on all points of sail compared to Lagoon, FP, etc... Not earth shattering, but certainly sportier. I didn't get much opportunity to sail in light winds, but for the hour or so that I did I got an easy ~50% TWS at about 120 AWA. All sailing was with the main and self-tacking jib. I kept a single reef in both sails almost the entire charter, though I think I would have been fine with full sails for a lot of that time. The boat does goes upwind better than other charter cats I've been on. As a whole, I sailed pretty conservatively, but was able to maintain 8+ knots on all points of sail as long whenever the winds were blowing 15+. I think if I had pushed the boat just a bit more I would have consistently seen double digits.

The helm stations took a bit of getting used to, but after a little while I had it pretty-well figured out - at least as well as possible. I found myself stepping up the top step next to the helm quite a bit while actively sailing. That allowed for line-of-sight above the coach roof but below the foot of both sails while staying close to the wheel. The visibility from the saloon and nav station is great so if making passage or sailing in non-congested waters there would be no issue. The only place the helm station remained a challenge was in close quarters/docking and initially when picking up mooring balls. Got comfortable with grabbing mooring balls pretty quickly though and the few times I had to grab a slip we fortunately were able to keep lines and fender on starboard (where the only engine controls were) which made it easy. It would be much tougher if the slip or dock was on port where I had virtually no visibility while using the engine controls. You can get engine controls on port in addition to starboard, but I think it's an expensive option and you also get electronic controls which I’ve heard aren’t as good. Still, if I was putting this boat into charter I think I’d be inclined to add the port controls. Probably not if it was going to be a private boat. We didn't have the opportunity to anchor, but I don't really see it as being too tough. One thing I would add for sure is a mast-head camera - maybe even two.

Livability was decent on the boat, but that is where it may lose a few marks against the traditional charter cats. The interior is generally not quite a voluminous compared to other charter cats of similar size. The owners hull was nice and comfortable with plenty of space and a great forward shower, but the other side was a little cramped. The saloon didn't have a table (at least on our boat) and only a fairly small seating area across from the nav station. The galley worked fine, but it would have been nice to have a little more work space. I'm back and forth when it comes to the raised bar in the center of the saloon. Aesthetically I like it, but no one really used it for much other than setting drinks on and storing provisions on the side of it. I wonder if it would make more sense to get rid of the raised bar and perhaps make the galley u-shaped instead. Or possibly change the bar into additional seating somehow.
The cockpit area worked well with plenty of room. I do like the open concept where the doors could be open to create a fairly cohesive flow between the cockpit and saloon - though it seems that most cats are moving in that direction. The front tramp and seating area was nice and was used quite a bit. I did notice that the deck transition to the trampoline was telegraphed through the cushions making it less comfortable than I was expecting. We found there to be ample storage throughout the boat.

Though we like the performance associated with having a nice low boom and sleek hull shape, we did miss certain aspects that a raised helm provides. When not underway a raised helm provides another space to hang out and especially to enjoy a nice view with some exposure to the breeze. IMO, a raised helm also seems to kind of connect the stern/cockpit to the bow of the boat and provides a nice spot to keep a watch over the entire boat. On the flip side, I do like the benefits of a low boom height and relatively less windage that this boat had. Of course, access to the boom and sail bag was very good.

From a practicality standpoint, access was easy for all of the systems we needed to get to on our charter. Plenty of room in the engine bays to do daily checks (and work on the engines if necessary) as well as nice sized forwards lockers to store fenders, lines, etc... I believe the generator was under the starboard aft bed and breakers for the winch and the windlass and possibly a few other systems under the port aft bed. I didn't see an easy way to access any of these without pulling the mattress which seems like a pain. I will say the generator on this boat was pretty quiet compared to any other boat I have been on. Not sure if it was due to extra insulation or what but I didn’t feel guilty about running it all night even when we were on a slip. We had one issue with the raw water intake. I was worried it was an impeller issue as we've had to deal with that in past charters, but it turned out to be a clogged through-hull not allowing the water to flow in so an easy fix.

Quality-wise it was a little tough to judge since it was a new boat. The Sail Sense system was having issues so we lacked information concerning our fuel and water. This was a warranty issue that they were still sorting out, so they didn’t want to make any changes to the system to try to fix it unless directed by the vendor. We just ended up topping off our tanks whenever we had the opportunity. We also used the water maker once when we ran out of water during the charter (more on that in a minute). The boat had a lot of solar and had lithium batteries so we always stayed well charged. We were told that if not using A/C or other heavy loads we would probably never have to run the engine or generator to charge the batteries as the solar would take care of it.

The one thing I did notice was some rust colored dripping and staining around certain fittings. I am thinking that this was due to galvanic corrosion where a different type of metal was used to shim a fitting or make a connection. There was also a consistent rust colored liquid that collected on the deck just forward and inboard of the port helm station. I wasn't sure what that was from or if was in fact from corrosion or rust, and it generally washed away with my daily dousing of the cockpit. The top step above the starboard helm station that I often stood on when underway had pulled up and away from the decks a bit. I assume that was probably from the skipper consistently stepping up and down on it. It was still fully usable, but over time I would imagine it would get worse. Not sure if this was a one-off issue or if it is an area that will need ongoing attention.

Finally, the stern shower hose gets shoved into the port engine compartment when not being used. There is plenty of room in the compartment, but the way the hose naturally laid (at least on this boat) had it being rubbed with the engine belt. As a result we developed two small holes in the hose that would spray water when the shower water was turned on. We noticed it pretty quickly and as a result made sure to keep the water turned off on the stern shower when not being used (as we should do anyway). However, my daughter did forget to turn it off once and it completely drained our almost full water tanks. We alerted the charter base to this issue and it sounds like they are going to build some sort of screen to keep it from happening. Not a big deal and pretty easy to fix, but something to be aware of.

While underway we didn't notice any excess noise coming from the hulls. Actually sounded pretty solid. The running rigging made the typical sounds you would expect while sailing, but nothing out of the ordinary. I’d say there was less hull noise than on various Lagoons and FPs I've been on - with the exception of the Saba 50 which I also thought was a pretty solid boat. Also didn't notice any significant hull or bridge deck slapping. We didn't get into any really big swell, but what we did encounter (maybe 6’ swells) it handled just fine.

So, would I buy this boat or stick with a Lagoon or FP? I think I would tend towards this boat. I would want to investigate the cause of the rust coloring around certain fittings and make sure that isn’t endemic throughout the boat. I’d also need to think a bit more about the helm position and lack of a raised helm. But I did really like the boat overall. It was easy to handle, seems like the quality was comparable or better than most other charter boats, and the little quirks that it does have I think I could learn to live with. I am really excited to learn more about the 48 Open that is coming up, but I think that will price out above what we would be looking to spend.
Hope this helps add some insight to anyone wondering about this boat. Would be very interested to hear what others who have the opportunity to sail the 44 have to say as well.

dhenline · 15-04-2023, 13:17

That was a really nice review. As as someone who just put 20% down on one, it makes me feel like it was a decent decision.
I have rented Lagoons in the past and always hated the way they sailed. I sailed a 44 for several hours and enjoyed the way it sailed.

dwh

caradow · 15-04-2023, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factor

Its not about sailing fast - its about sailing when others are motoring

Big reason!!

Alanvkrasno · 21-04-2023, 06:55

I’ve got a Nautitech Open 46. 2018 A few niggles on build. Leaks around the top saloon windows. And recently some blisters on the hulls where they used the wrong incompatible filler. But nothing major (like the Lagoon Bulkheads! ) and the Warranty covered that.
I love the helm position great to dock almost single handed. And very safe as you can keep a watchful eye on less experienced crew from the helm. The visibility is a sl issue as the cabin partly obscured one quadrant but then you don’t get the sails blocking your view either so swings and roundabouts.
I’ve found the steering very responsive and you get ‘feel’ a bit like a monohull and being closer to the sea you get less of a ROLY feeling and a better appreciation of sea conditions. I’m quite fan !

Giova · 24-04-2023, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alanvkrasno

I’ve got a Nautitech Open 46. 2018 A few niggles on build. Leaks around the top saloon windows. And recently some blisters on the hulls where they used the wrong incompatible filler. But nothing major (like the Lagoon Bulkheads! ) and the Warranty covered that.
I love the helm position great to dock almost single handed. And very safe as you can keep a watchful eye on less experienced crew from the helm. The visibility is a sl issue as the cabin partly obscured one quadrant but then you don’t get the sails blocking your view either so swings and roundabouts.
I’ve found the steering very responsive and you get ‘feel’ a bit like a monohull and being closer to the sea you get less of a ROLY feeling and a better appreciation of sea conditions. I’m quite fan !

Thank you Alanvkrasno.

Would you mind sending some data on the performance of the cat?
For example, there's the usual comparison between Daggerborads and Keels and when you talk about Nautitech there's always the question on how big really is the gap since they claim to have high performance keels (also based on Marc Lombard declaration that daggerboards at the end are not such of a big advantage). From the personal standpoint, Nautitech is the only "non daggerboards" cat that I am considering. I love as well the helm position, I do not want to have a cat that does not perform (especially in low wind).

Thank you

Giovanni

Alanvkrasno · 24-04-2023, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giova

Thank you Alanvkrasno.

Would you mind sending some data on the performance of the cat?
For example, there's the usual comparison between Daggerborads and Keels and when you talk about Nautitech there's always the question on how big really is the gap since they claim to have high performance keels (also based on Marc Lombard declaration that daggerboards at the end are not such of a big advantage). From the personal standpoint, Nautitech is the only "non daggerboards" cat that I am considering. I love as well the helm position, I do not want to have a cat that does not perform (especially in low wind).

Thank you

Giovanni

My observation on the N46 keels are that they are slightly larger than those on other similar cats but you don’t get the upwind performance that you get with daggerboards. The closer to the wind at say 55 deg awa the leeway is very noticeable even if boat speed is say 5-6 kn. That’s the main difference. This mean course made good does suffer. However. I value the simplicity of not thinking about raising and lowering DBS to prevent damage. I hear that DBS can increase the risk of capsize due to ‘tripping’ and they take up space in the hulls and can be noisy. But others may feel differently and have different experiences. I love not having to think about raising and lowering DBS

Giova · 24-04-2023, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alanvkrasno

My observation on the N46 keels are that they are slightly larger than those on other similar cats but you don’t get the upwind performance that you get with daggerboards. The closer to the wind at say 55 deg awa the leeway is very noticeable even if boat speed is say 5-6 kn. That’s the main difference. This mean course made good does suffer. However. I value the simplicity of not thinking about raising and lowering DBS to prevent damage. I hear that DBS can increase the risk of capsize due to ‘tripping’ and they take up space in the hulls and can be noisy. But others may feel differently and have different experiences. I love not having to think about raising and lowering DBS

Thank you

And overall how are the performance, especially in low wind? Do you have code 0?

Alanvkrasno · 24-04-2023, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giova

Thank you

And overall how are the performance, especially in low wind? Do you have code 0?

I think it’s good. Yes I use a Code 0 which is great in 6-15 tws. The key is to not overload a N46 or indeed any cat. So we have no aircon or generator and I’m quite strict on limiting unnecessary items.

Zenit12 · 11-05-2023, 14:22

I have Nautitech 46 open 22 year . So for 1 year I had : plastic delimitation ( solved by warranty) due to bad manufacturing, first reef broken after 200 miles due to bad construction,no warranty , forvard windows leaking , solved by warranty. Rudder was blocked in the Atlantic due to bad manufacturing the rudders ropes and sleeves , and a lot of small issues with furniture, plastic panels etc., broken travelers I have to say that the rudder construction of this boat not reliable, because they putted into hull and fixed plastics rings only , so those rings rings wear out , and both ruders start moving unproperly I have this problem as well

Zenit12 · 12-05-2023, 08:21

You can see first problem with rudders but not last from this video 4.47 minute
https://youtu.be/mOmscfz8_N4

Zenit12 · 16-05-2023, 13:14

About warranty claims , it’s better to forget about it after 3 months of delivery

dpignolet · 17-05-2023, 18:26

I'd be very cautious with Nautitechs. I surveyed a 1 year old boat and found a leaking fuel tank. There was a crack in the aluminum at the base of the tank in the bilge. This seems to be a consistent problem with the brand, they use very thin aluminum for fuel tanks to "save weight" . The tanks also have very limited baffling so they oil can and can be pretty loud.

Under building fuel tanks is a major shortcoming. Replacing that tank would be many tens of thousands of dollars as you would have to remove a whole bunch of furniture and God knows what else. If anything, fuel tank should be overbuilt for this reason. As the boat ages the tank will accumulate some corrosion and the thinner the aluminum the shorter that tank will last.