Nautitech Open 40

[brainmaker]

Dear Monte, long time no speak ! I was just going through the same numbercrunching you did on open 40, and to add further to what you already said and I agree with makes complete sense - try running your numbers against the new Lagoon 42...

I also agree with you saying options by manufacturer are always incomprehensibly expensive versus having them fitted afterwards.

Finally, forgetting money for a moment - I find it so sad that the fabulous boat that the Nautitech Open 40 is, is ruined by (1) the silly cramped wheels at the back that impair visibility and force you to constantly walk up and down, pushing people out of the way to check that the other half of your vision is clear (if you sail the boat with a few people, guess what they are milling about in the same fashion as well) (2) the interior just doesn't work, the inside seating is too small. They should get a flybridge seat version, with a clever Catana/Bali folding door to make the outside area inside and tweak that interior to be better.

Having said all that .. yes the one that does make sense is the Open 46 flybridge. But - that is a bit big ... Think the numbers will not lie, people will vote with their feet and Bavaria are very intelligent players, so they will soon make a few simple modifications to the 40 .... and in the design of the hugely successful Nautitech Open 43 call you and me to get some input from long term comfort addicted liveaboards who have lived on these things day in day out for years !!

[gelliott]

Originally Posted by Sail power sail

Gelliot - how have your post purchase experiences been with the Nauti Open 40? Are you happy with the build quality, performance, customer service?


Best regards

Apologies, for some reason I missed this post in December! I have to say I still love the boat....Im a real newbie so getting used to all aspects of boat ownership..... customer service from Key Yachting is very very good.....build quality is great, no creaks very well put together....did have one issue where some headlining dropped due to damp but that was my fault, as a newbie didn't realise what a wet UK winter did inside when I left it for a month! Some damped and a dehumidifier/heater solved that.....very pleased with the boat so far.

[gelliott]

Originally Posted by brainmaker

Finally, forgetting money for a moment - I find it so sad that the fabulous boat that the Nautitech Open 40 is, is ruined by (1) the silly cramped wheels at the back that impair visibility and force you to constantly walk up and down, pushing people out of the way to check that the other half of your vision is clear (if you sail the boat with a few people, guess what they are milling about in the same fashion as well) (2) the interior just doesn't work, the inside seating is too small. They should get a flybridge seat version, with a clever Catana/Bali folding door to make the outside area inside and tweak that interior to be better.

Having said all that .. yes the one that does make sense is the Open 46 flybridge. But - that is a bit big ...

Hi Brainmaker, Im going to see the 46 at La Grande Motte, will let you know thoughts...... just a few comments on the helm position.....Bruno of Nautitech and I had often argued about the twin helms, with me always saying I would never get them, and him saying if you like to sail and want the best feeling of sailing then they were essential. I always preferred flybridges, or on a smaller boat semi fly/bulkhead helm like a Nautitech 541.
Obviously like anything on a cat, it's a compromise and depends what your bias is. I spent two years looking at every cat I could in the 40-45 range, and the N40 was by far and away my favourite in terms of sailing, and I now actually like those steering positions, I find the feel under sail intoxicating, and closer to a mono than the other positions. If you want a lounge about charter cat then get a flybridge, middle of the road is a bulkhead helm, and sailing feel is the twin helm. Once you get used to it you actually enjoy it more I believe, and it's certainly better for a UK based boat IMHO.
Bruno was always of the view that he would not do BH helm, but given the way FP/Lagoon are going with split choice and the fact the N46 has two options then who knows, maybe we will see it on the 40!
I also find myself loving the lines of the boat more than most and that can be spoilt by a BH helm IMHO. With regard to your earlier comments re making the open part encased with fixed doors like the Bali, that would add quite a lot of weight....Ive used the boat in winter quite a lot and its easily warm enough with the heating inside the canvas. I sailed the Bali, and found it slightly pitchy, and its movement through the water nowhere near as smooth, though it was a lovely boat inside. I think one of the N40's best points is it's very smooth motion through the water, doesn't feel like most cats. Again, it's a compromise.
I agree with your comments re cabin ventilation, could be better. I also agree with your comments re the cupboards and galley eqmnt too small, were having extra cupboards installed on the top, and we made further storage by installing some small stainless steel bars in front of the kitchen workshop, as well as a sliding in /out storage area behind the fridge matched to the other units. We also made a small bar/glass holder made of corona in the centre to the right of the galley much to Paul's amusement, he said Smitten will never see 20 knots again! Maybe we will still get 15-18! (-:
I also like the build quality, the boat doesn't make a squeak, and customer service from Key Yachting is extremely good as Ive mentioned in other posts. Compared to the likes of FP the quality is another level up IMO.
I'm still learning about boat ownership but really enjoying it so far and very happy with choice of boat, it's not perfect but as near to I could find!
If anybody wants to hear more or call me just PM me for details

[Sail power sail]

Gelliott great to hear about your positive experiences with the open 40. It continues to be on my now very short list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[gelliott]

Originally Posted by Sail power sail

Gelliott great to hear about your positive experiences with the open 40. It continues to be on my now very short list.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I recommend you take one for a sail, that's what changed things for me.....best, Graham

[Sail power sail]

Thanks Graham. I have and really enjoyed the boat. I have two boats left to sail. The open 40 was impressive. I agree with you on the exceptional feel you get at the helm

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[gelliott]

Originally Posted by Sail power sail

Thanks Graham. I have and really enjoyed the boat. I have two boats left to sail. The open 40 was impressive. I agree with you on the exceptional feel you get at the helm

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just our of interest, (cos Im nosy!) what are the other two you are looking at?

[Sail power sail]

I misspoke. It's three others. Outremer 45. Never sailed it but will sail an outremer(not the 45) this month, seawind 1260 (sailed the 1190) and balance 451 (sailed and liked it).

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[gelliott]

Originally Posted by Sail power sail

I misspoke. It's three others. Outremer 45. Never sailed it but will sail an outremer(not the 45) this month, seawind 1260 (sailed the 1190) and balance 451 (sailed and liked it).

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I think the Outremer will be very nice, but a little hardcore for me, I wanted performance with a little more comfort and budget! Never sailed a Seawind and would like to sail the Balance, you should probably try the new N46 if looking at that size....going to see it next month.

[Sail power sail]

Thanks. the compromise thing keeps raising it's ugly head. The open 40 sailing like it does in the high level of comfort it offers is a great thing. I don't know about the outremer yet but an excited by the reviews I've read. The fit and finish seemed at another level on the balance and the performance was very good. Intrigued by the seawind and will sail again(we had very light winds). Fun process I must say.

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[brainmaker]

Hi Gelliott

How are you enjoying and have you found the Open 40 after a few seasons now ?? Interested in your thoughts, I just have looked at a Fly 46 and really like that, and the absence of the wheels after either side ... and of course the space and view up there and the improved feel with two open sterns, for traffic around and in/out of the boat.

look forward to your thoughts

[gelliott]

Hi Brainmaker....I’m enjoying it so much I’m getting another!
It’s been two whole years of sailing both winter and summer with few breaks. In the winter Ill sail whenever weather is good, and this some we did a six week solid sail for many weeks of which we had no marina...(we sailed to Scilly Isles, simply stunning)
I’m upgrading to a 3 cabin openers version 40, with an eye to trading that up next year to a 46, so bear in mind my comments will naturally be skewed by the verity good experience I have had.
Firstly, the boat held its value exceptionally well, for me, unbelievably so, and sold very easily with a queue of interested buyers, these boats are popular!
Secondly on the boat itself, I’ve obviously been delighted with it or I wouldn’t get another! The quality of the build is great, it last really well and stays so solid. The early boats like mine had what I consider not so great quality pumps, but Ive noticed the quality has gone up since Bavaria bought them, and the joinery looks better quality. Local dealer Key Yachting is brilliant!
Ive had a real learning curve with the gennaker that mounts on the 360 furler, just dont use it when the wind is building because its a bastard to get in right when windy.....get it on the nets and put away asap!
Fastest sail yet is 21.6 knots down the back on a 3-4m wave, that was great! She handles big seas really well and you dont feel at all concerned....I’m sure you’ve all seen that video of my boat doing 20 knots, fastest I’ve had is 16.8 knots without surfing, shortly after that I blew the block on my Genny, like I said its a learning curve!
Although i would have agreed several years ago, i would now never agree with you on fly bridges or bulkhead helm, I think the twin position is without doubt the best, but that’s subjective so I guess were never going to agree until you try
them!
There was a 46 fly next to mine for a while being made ready a few months back, it does have more room I agree, but I still prefer the twins....I think there s a reason all the best sailing cats have twins helms.
You cannot go wrong with the quality on these boats, 2 years in, out all summer and most weekends and so little has gone wrong, and the quality is great, no rust on the stainless, faults -1 water pump, a loose wire on the audio, a broken water pipe switch, an overcharging alternator, bushes/engine on windlass, and a burnt element......the latter my fault i think, or a bad design fault that i know has now been fixed ....also the new layout is really good internally, makes more room in the 40 saloon.
My buddy has bought a 46 and done a lot of sailing on that and pleased to report it can also put the myth that only cats with daggers can sail tight to wind, the 46 does almost just as well as the 40, both will get 30 degrees (just) apparent to wind though you will lose a knot or two
Faults....well hardly any actually, the door locks are unreliable, (the new ones
are different) , previously mentioned water pumps on old boats, to reef you have to go up front, I can live with it but would prefer otherwise, the heads are slightly snug on the four cabins but the payoff is performance so that’s ok, there’s a bit of a flat spot by the mast that gathers dirt (sorry picky i know!) cant really think of anything else...oh I dont really like the ovens, very weedy, all other things have been addressed in new designs. Ps...she’s a very good load carrier......
Very well built and designed boat that holds it value, is very safe, and a very good performance cat....when buying a cat everything is a compromise, for me,
this boat is the best combination of performance and comfort that you can get.
Don’t hesitate at all in recommending the brand, or my dealer, who I know from others flys all over sorting out any issues his customers have. Shoot me any questions you have
Graham

[gelliott]

Ps....ill probably take my Bavaria symbol of and replace with nautitech!! Think Bavaria are missing a trick by not expanding the Nautitech brand more in the same way lagoon and beneteau did

[brainmaker]

Dear Graham

Thanks for the prompt reply. Yes I have seen the 20 knots video - I made it in fact ;-) didn't know it was your boat. As I said at the time, and as is still true, I haven't yet come across something that exciting, great performance combined with comfort in a normally priced cat (i.e. not outremer money) and of course the numbers make clear the 40 is a better performer than the fly 46 will be.

The greatest proof of you being happy after a couple of long seasons sailing, is that you're getting another one. All your technical comments are noted too, and having seen a new fly 46 last weekend I can indeed confirm they're paying attention to quality control and upgrading the electric winch capacity and so on.

kind regards

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by gelliott

Hi Brainmaker....I’m enjoying it so much I’m getting another!
It’s been two whole years of sailing both winter and summer with few breaks. In the winter Ill sail whenever weather is good, and this some we did a six week solid sail for many weeks of which we had no marina...(we sailed to Scilly Isles, simply stunning)
I’m upgrading to a 3 cabin openers version 40, with an eye to trading that up next year to a 46, so bear in mind my comments will naturally be skewed by the verity good experience I have had.
Firstly, the boat held its value exceptionally well, for me, unbelievably so, and sold very easily with a queue of interested buyers, these boats are popular!
Secondly on the boat itself, I’ve obviously been delighted with it or I wouldn’t get another! The quality of the build is great, it last really well and stays so solid. The early boats like mine had what I consider not so great quality pumps, but Ive noticed the quality has gone up since Bavaria bought them, and the joinery looks better quality. Local dealer Key Yachting is brilliant!
Ive had a real learning curve with the gennaker that mounts on the 360 furler, just dont use it when the wind is building because its a bastard to get in right when windy.....get it on the nets and put away asap!
Fastest sail yet is 21.6 knots down the back on a 3-4m wave, that was great! She handles big seas really well and you dont feel at all concerned....I’m sure you’ve all seen that video of my boat doing 20 knots, fastest I’ve had is 16.8 knots without surfing, shortly after that I blew the block on my Genny, like I said its a learning curve!
Although i would have agreed several years ago, i would now never agree with you on fly bridges or bulkhead helm, I think the twin position is without doubt the best, but that’s subjective so I guess were never going to agree until you try
them!
There was a 46 fly next to mine for a while being made ready a few months back, it does have more room I agree, but I still prefer the twins....I think there s a reason all the best sailing cats have twins helms.
You cannot go wrong with the quality on these boats, 2 years in, out all summer and most weekends and so little has gone wrong, and the quality is great, no rust on the stainless, faults -1 water pump, a loose wire on the audio, a broken water pipe switch, an overcharging alternator, bushes/engine on windlass, and a burnt element......the latter my fault i think, or a bad design fault that i know has now been fixed ....also the new layout is really good internally, makes more room in the 40 saloon.
My buddy has bought a 46 and done a lot of sailing on that and pleased to report it can also put the myth that only cats with daggers can sail tight to wind, the 46 does almost just as well as the 40, both will get 30 degrees (just) apparent to wind though you will lose a knot or two
Faults....well hardly any actually, the door locks are unreliable, (the new ones
are different) , previously mentioned water pumps on old boats, to reef you have to go up front, I can live with it but would prefer otherwise, the heads are slightly snug on the four cabins but the payoff is performance so that’s ok, there’s a bit of a flat spot by the mast that gathers dirt (sorry picky i know!) cant really think of anything else...oh I dont really like the ovens, very weedy, all other things have been addressed in new designs. Ps...she’s a very good load carrier......
Very well built and designed boat that holds it value, is very safe, and a very good performance cat....when buying a cat everything is a compromise, for me,
this boat is the best combination of performance and comfort that you can get.
Don’t hesitate at all in recommending the brand, or my dealer, who I know from others flys all over sorting out any issues his customers have. Shoot me any questions you have
Graham

Hi Graham!

I’m so glad you’re hanging around the forum so we can get first hand, long term critiques. It’s great when somebody gets a new boat and has more positive than negative experiences. I’ve always liked the 40 and we’re still debating on which boat and which size.

So 2 quick questions if I may; why get a new 40 and then a 46? Why not just move to the larger boat? And do you have a ballpark price for each size equipped? I know you don’t have the costs of delivery and commisioning in the U.S., but I can guess what that is based on FP boats.

Thanks,
Lee