Need Advice on Catamaran Purchase

[Nani Kai]

The admiral and I are closing in on our semi-retirement dream to own and operate a dive/sail/cruise/eat well charter boat in the Caribbean, hopefully to start up this coming November 2018.

We have decided that a Catamaran is the way to go and lean favorably to the Leopard 444. Two weeks ago we made an offer on one of the last 444’s available but were unable to come to an agreement on the price with the owner. We are now looking for alternatives at a price within our budget of $285K to $325K.

I will be attending the boat show">Miami boat show in February specifically to look at used Cats and talk to lenders and vendors.

Prior to that trip I wanted to avail myself of the combined knowledge on this forum as to suitable brands of Catamarans worth considering.

Here are some criteria:

Boat length 39-44’
3-4 cabins
Electric pump heads
Generator
A/C both at dock and when away from shore power
Up to date electronics
Electric windlass
Electric winch at least for mainsail
Diesel engines
Deck space aft of the cockpit for SCUBA tank storage
Easy entry and exit to/from water which must include at least one direct access to sugar scoop stern steps without having to step up onto cockpit seating
Dinghy davits
Proven design
Established manufacturer with good parts availability
Build date 2005 or later OR earlier models with recent equipment replacement or upgrades
Roller furling head sail
Lazy jacks

In addition to the Leopard 444 we also favor the Lagoon 440. The Lagoon 400 is also a strong contender. We have looked at the Leopard 3900 and the Leopard 38 as well. The 3900 will work but it’s hard not to love the forward cockpit found on the 444 and 440. The Leopard 38 is the 3900 but without a generator so not currently under consideration.

I think that should get the discussion going. Any and all recommendations appreciated.

[Bean Counter]

I guess you want a 4 cabin so you have three guest cabins, unless you want to camp out in a forward locker whilst 4 cabins available. With a full load of guests, scuba gear and toys you will want as much interior volume as possible - so Lagoon 440. In the Caribbean the fly bridge will be attractive to your guests and keep all the controls, lines etc away from the cockpit, and makes more space in the cockpit. Other than that they are all pretty much the same for equivalent length in terms of mechanical and electrical systems and all experience pretty much the same headaches.

[rom]

Is there really a leopard 444 or could you be talking about the leopard 44 ? In which case this is a rather recent boat and your budget may not fit. Well, I don't know much about the leopards, but I do know the L440: you can probably find one in your budget but I am afraid you may then need to put in quite some more money for repairs & upgrade. With a little bit of homework you can prepare yourself to estimate those costs for every boat you are going to visit.

Leopard 44 & L440 are in same league but offer different sailing & living experience, if not already done you should test sail both. The flybridge really makes the L440 different, but you may not like it.

I suppose your budget is VAT included, you did not say.

[PaulinOz]

Quote Rom "Is there really a leopard 444 or could you be talking about the leopard 44 ?"

Apparently ‘Leopard 444’ (Launched 2012)

The Leopard 444 catamaran built by Robertson and Caine. I suspect the 444 is the Sunsail charter version of the Leopard 44.

[CaptainBrad]

Hello
We have a 2005 Lagoon 410 S2 owners version that pretty much fills your wish list, and then some. From your list we do not have updated electronics or electric heads, but everything else. Actually we have updated AIS, WiFi booster and electronic chart card.
We are currently cruising in the Abacos Bahamas (moored in Hope Town) and plan to move the boat to Ft Lauderdale at the end of April to put her up for sale by owner.
If you're interested, send me an email and I can send you photos and a spec sheet.
If you are really interested, you are welcome to come stay aboard for a visit to check her out in person.
Here's my email, no spaces
captain brad at sdmodelmakers dot com

[Emouchet]

Here are 2 interesting videos about buying catamaran:
https://youtu.be/wOIMXTnLTYw
https://youtu.be/5wHw46n8bFc

[JasonS]

We have a Manta 40. If you are open to 3 cabin (2 queens and a double/single, the Manta 40 or 42 will meet your needs and is quite different than many charter cats. It's really built as a boat for couples or couple with 1-2 kids. We regularly scuba from the boat as instructor/Divemaster couple. Two kayaks, two SUPs, two sets of scuba gear, multiple tanks. There's room for a small conpressor but probably recommend upsizing towards the 50 range is you want lots of toys and a compressor.

[danielamartindm]

The good news is that, having decided upon a cat, there are any number of used blue water cats to be had within your stated budget. Go to some boat shows to see them in the flesh, and when you've narrowed it down to a few, see if you can arrange some sea trials. Catamarans are awesome vessels. Best of luck.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

I guess you want a 4 cabin so you have three guest cabins, unless you want to camp out in a forward locker whilst 4 cabins available. With a full load of guests, scuba gear and toys you will want as much interior volume as possible - so Lagoon 440. In the Caribbean the fly bridge will be attractive to your guests and keep all the controls, lines etc away from the cockpit, and makes more space in the cockpit. Other than that they are all pretty much the same for equivalent length in terms of mechanical and electrical systems and all experience pretty much the same headaches.

Bean Counter, thanks for the reply. I agree with your assessment. What "the same headaches" specifically are you referring to?

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by rom

Is there really a leopard 444 or could you be talking about the leopard 44 ? In which case this is a rather recent boat and your budget may not fit. Well, I don't know much about the leopards, but I do know the L440: you can probably find one in your budget but I am afraid you may then need to put in quite some more money for repairs & upgrade. With a little bit of homework you can prepare yourself to estimate those costs for every boat you are going to visit.

Leopard 44 & L440 are in same league but offer different sailing & living experience, if not already done you should test sail both. The flybridge really makes the L440 different, but you may not like it.

I suppose your budget is VAT included, you did not say.

The boats we are looking at do in fact include the VAT. We have sailed the Sunsail 444 which is Leopard's 44 and like it immensely. The 440 flybridge is a big plus from a sail handling and customer comfort perspective. I think the flybridge is a feature equal to the Leopard's walk through salon to the forward cockpit so in that instance they balance out. Haven't sailed the 440 yet but expect to look at several in Miami in a couple of weeks. I haven't yet figured out the negatives in having the flybridge although I did go aboard a Lagoon 50 in St. Martin and was disappointed in the lack of aft visibility from the flybridge. You can't see the starboard quarter at all from the helm except through a very narrow window cut into the hardtop. Would make docking a hassle I would think.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

Quote Rom "Is there really a leopard 444 or could you be talking about the leopard 44 ?"

Apparently ‘Leopard 444’ (Launched 2012)

The Leopard 444 catamaran built by Robertson and Caine. I suspect the 444 is the Sunsail charter version of the Leopard 44.

Yep. That's the one.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by CaptainBrad

Hello
We have a 2005 Lagoon 410 S2 owners version that pretty much fills your wish list, and then some. From your list we do not have updated electronics or electric heads, but everything else. Actually we have updated AIS, WiFi booster and electronic chart card.
We are currently cruising in the Abacos Bahamas (moored in Hope Town) and plan to move the boat to Ft Lauderdale at the end of April to put her up for sale by owner.
If you're interested, send me an email and I can send you photos and a spec sheet.
If you are really interested, you are welcome to come stay aboard for a visit to check her out in person.
Here's my email, no spaces
captain brad at sdmodelmakers dot com

Capn Brad, Just sent you an email. Thanks.

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by JasonS

We have a Manta 40. If you are open to 3 cabin (2 queens and a double/single, the Manta 40 or 42 will meet your needs and is quite different than many charter cats. It's really built as a boat for couples or couple with 1-2 kids. We regularly scuba from the boat as instructor/Divemaster couple. Two kayaks, two SUPs, two sets of scuba gear, multiple tanks. There's room for a small conpressor but probably recommend upsizing towards the 50 range is you want lots of toys and a compressor.

JasonS, Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at Mantas. Aloha, k

[Nani Kai]

Originally Posted by danielamartindm

The good news is that, having decided upon a cat, there are any number of used blue water cats to be had within your stated budget. Go to some boat shows to see them in the flesh, and when you've narrowed it down to a few, see if you can arrange some sea trials. Catamarans are awesome vessels. Best of luck.

Thanks. Heading to the Miami boat show for just that reason. btw, our son is named Daniel Martin. Nice name. Aloha, k

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by Nani Kai

Bean Counter, thanks for the reply. I agree with your assessment. What "the same headaches" specifically are you referring to?

A lot of the production cats share the same engine, sail drive, watermaker, generator, navigation systems, autopilots, water pumps, heads etc etc etc.

So they basically get the same faults and maintenance issues irrespective of the manufacturer of the hull. The only difference might be how the factory wiring looms have been put together and how easy access has been designed in (eg access to maintain engines).