Neel 51

[tatomaceda]

New Video by YachtingWorld:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGlcmqRF4EI

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Spellchecker needed?

Paul

[tatomaceda]

Yachting World
Spell Checker
You get it?
Toby Hodges likes the boat... and there wasn't even any wind.

[pbmaise]

I have been tracking on a spread sheet all the cruising trimarans I can find for sale and this thread explains why the used Neels are so cheap.

I had a water heater aboard when I purchased my trimaran. I pulled it out without even trying it.

The engine on the 51 looks undersized for the amount of windage. That certainly would be something I would ask owners about.

I didn't see a wheel at the nav desk. That really surprised me. I thought you could steer from inside. I think there may have been an interface to the autopilot.

Overall, I am thinking Neel will attrack mostly first time buyers who are wowed by the interior space.

[Hobschel]

Thank you for the new Video, I agree' it s like the 2nd first look from yachtingworld.com...

i would have loved to see the clearance of the leeward ama and main hull... and yes with more wind and waves. Seems like the producers of most boats like to show their boats in calm conditions.

Good remark regarding the engine, how do you actually know how much hp one needs Displacement and?

let s take a few similar sized cats to compare (let me know if i got some numbers wrong):
Outremer 51 - Displacement:10t/13.7t - 80HP(2x40HP) - HP/Displacment Ratio: 5.8 - 8HP/t
FP Saba 50 - Displacement:15t/20t - 110HP(2x55HP) - HP/Displacment Ratio: 5.5 - 7.3HP/t
Lagoon 50 - Displacement:20.8t/??t - 114HP(2x57HP) - HP/Displacment Ratio: ?.? - 5.5HP/t
Neel 45 - Displacement:8.5t - 55HP - HP/Displacment Ratio: 6.5HP/t
Neel 51 - Displacement:14t - 75HP - HP/Displacment Ratio: 5.4HP/t

like this it seems that the Neel 51 is indeed at the lower end, especially compared to her smaller sister the Neel 45.

[pbmaise]

Originally Posted by Hobschel

Thank you for the new Video, I agree' it s like the 2nd first look from yachtingworld.com...

i would have loved to see the clearance of the leeward ama and main hull... and yes with more wind and waves. Seems like the producers of most boats like to show their boats in calm conditions.

Good remark regarding the engine, how do you actually know how much hp one needs Displacement and?

let s take a few similar sized cats to compare (let me know if i got some numbers wrong):
Outremer 51 - Displacement:10t/13.7t - 80HP(2x40HP) - HP/Displacment Ratio: 5.8 - 8HP/t
FP Saba 50 - Displacement:15t/20t - 110HP(2x55HP) - HP/Displacment Ratio: 5.5 - 7.3HP/t
Lagoon 50 - Displacement:20.8t/??t - 114HP(2x57HP) - HP/Displacment Ratio: ?.? - 5.5HP/t
Neel 45 - Displacement:8.5t - 55HP - HP/Displacment Ratio: 6.5HP/t
Neel 51 - Displacement:14t - 75HP - HP/Displacment Ratio: 5.4HP/t

like this it seems that the Neel 51 is indeed at the lower end, especially compared to her smaller sister the Neel 45.

Good research however displacement is not my primary reference point. Instead I look at windage. How many square feet of vessel does the wind push against when heading directly into the wind?

Unfortunately, vessels don't publish this number.

My 65' trimaran has 150 HP to power a modest pilot house.

The Neel 51 condo sized accommodation area spread almost ama to ama, likely has more windage than my vessel and 1/2 the engine power.

So when the sun is setting, people are tired, and home port is directly into a 15 knot wind, can that engine bring the Neel 51 home?

I know my 150 HP engine can do this for my boat.

[Heath68]

A very good point, we need someone with some scale drawings and a ruler...

[Heath68]

A Good recent review of this boat...

https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/boat-review-neel-51

The articles I've read say that this sails very well in light airs. I would liken the size of this to a 48-50ft "condomaran" ... I was then considering how often people with the latter resort to using their engine to cruise?

If it is quite a lot, the money spent on fuel may be offset by the extra it costs to park once you arrive. Unless of course marina's charge you extra for a tri over a cat due to the extra width (i have no experience of this)

[GARRYOWEN]

I just can't get over the $4.40 door latch at 8:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGlcmqRF4EI

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pf_rd_i=511280

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by GARRYOWEN

I just can't get over the $4.40 door latch at 8:25

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pf_rd_i=511280

If that's what you got from that video, I suggest you buy an RV!

[Mariano]

European multi of the year at BOOT DUSSELDORF, so it can´t be so bad......


Mariano

Fair winds

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Mariano

European multi of the year at BOOT DUSSELDORF, so it can´t be so bad......


Mariano

Fair winds

Oooh, there have been some very crappy boats get such awards...I think it has more to do with advertising dollars spent than the boat itself. However, the Neel design is very interesting.

[beauris]

i don’t think neel has a lot of money to spend on advertisement ...it’s not really a mom’n’pop operation but it’s not big either

[Thalas]

Originally Posted by Heath68

A Good recent review of this boat...

https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/boat-review-neel-51

The articles I've read say that this sails very well in light airs. I would liken the size of this to a 48-50ft "condomaran" ... I was then considering how often people with the latter resort to using their engine to cruise?

If it is quite a lot, the money spent on fuel may be offset by the extra it costs to park once you arrive. Unless of course marina's charge you extra for a tri over a cat due to the extra width (i have no experience of this)

Unfortunately, due to market forces, EVERY boat review tends to be a glowing encomium. I appreciate a walkthrough video and even some footage under sail, but Tobey and the rest have a vested financial interest in good press.

I wish every boat review would list a) wind speed and direction combined with b) SOG at every angle between close hauled and run. Ideally with a morning run in light airs and an afternoon run with gusts.

[maddocmuc]

Originally Posted by neel tri exp

I am the owner of the boat (NEEL 45) shown on the youtube videos.
The problems documented on the videos are not the only problems.
They do however accurately depict the build quality of the boat and the complete lack of quality control in the build process. In my opinion, they say even more about the manufacturer/builder, the company management and the knowledge, experience and standards (lack thereof) of those involved in all aspects of the build. That said, I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind would ever consider ordering/purchasing a new model from NEEL. My NEEL experience clearly demonstrates the complete incompetence of the builder. After having built many boats of the same model they still didn't have their act together. I have communicated with other NEEL 45 owners who's boats shared many of the same issues uncovered and documented on my boat. Unfortunately, for the boat buying community, they are not anxious to share their issues publicly because they are "worried about the resale value of their boats". Yes, that is what I have heard from a few owners. The NEEL "sales pitch" is very cleverly crafted and is seems to appeal to first time boat buyers who are going thru the process of determining which boat is best for them. Monohull? Cat? Wow! A "cruising" trimaran is the best of both worlds! Well, perhaps in theory. But certainly not what I found in execution.

As troubling or perhaps even more troubling than the hull breach suffered on our first trip was the heater incident that occurred on our 2nd trip - our return sail to the NEEL factory for repairs. The heater was incorrectly installed and we were almost completely overcome by carbon monoxide. Heck! I could have done that in my garage. It certainly would have been cheaper than buying a NEEL! We were sailing north in the bay of biscay in early november. It was cold outside and we had the factory installed heater on. It was mid afternoon. I had just come on watch and was finding it impossible to stay awake. I was slapping my face a few times every minute to stay awake. I looked over at my other crew member and he was out cold (sleeping/unconscious). I had that thought you have when you are exhausted - "I'll just close my eyes for a minute, it will be ok". Except - I wasn't exhausted, I just couldn't keep my eyes open. I stood up from the nav chair, slapped my face a few more times and started pacing around the salon. As I passed over the "tech area" door (in the middle of the salon floor) I detected a very slight burning smell. I reached down and opened the "technical area" door. The entire hull beneath the salon floor was full of smoke!! I shook awake my unconscious crew member and grabbed a fire extinguisher. We didn't detect any flames so i didn't deploy it. We immediately shut every system on the boat down and opened all door and hatches to clear the interior of the boat. The webasto diesel heater had been incorrectly installed. The fresh air intake hose was never connected to the fresh air intake on the heater unit. The heater exhaust which daylights (exits) the boat near the top of the main hull, below the wing to the starboard ama ( so relatively close to the waterline in an area often flush with water in seas over 4') had taken in seawater. There was no sump installed in the exhaust line so it became plugged. The result? Diesel exhaust came out of the fitting where the hose attached to the heater unit. Diesel exhaust was coming out of the left side of the heater unit and being sucked into the fresh air intake on the right side of the unit. It was then being heated and delivered to the entire inside living area of the boat thru the corresponding duct work. - watch the corresponding video on youtube

When we arrived back in la rochelle, I personally informed eric bruNEEL of this incident face to face. He offered me a confused expression (which I would venture to guess all NEEL owners are very familiar with) and his #2 person gaelle, actually laughed aloud. Eric said "we will take a look at it". I contacted webasto, sent them photos of the installation and they confirmed the installation was incorrect. The surveyor said it was installed incorrectly and didn't comply with EU standards/regulation. NEEL insisted it was installed correctly however, a later date installed a sump in the exhaust line and extended the fresh air intake hose to the fresh air intake on the heater unit.

Unfortunately, this was demonstrative of my experience with eric bruneel and with NEEL. Many items on the boat were not installed per manufacturer instructions. Many systems were not checked - I don't think anything was checked! Of course, eric bruneel had claimed "tight quality control" and to have a "team of professionals" building NEEL boats. From what I hear, he continues those claims (and many more).

The hull breach on my boat could have occurred in the middle of the atlantic. Fortunately, it did not.

We were nearly overcome by carbon monoxide from the incorrect installation of the heater.

the boat hasn't sailed since it returned to la rochelle - where it sits today

In my opinion, eric bruneel should not be allowed to build boats and anyone who considers purchasing a NEEL needs a good wake-up slap! or 2 or 3

Hi,
I just came back from a charter trip of a neel 45 based in la Grand motte.
I was absolutely fascinated by the ship. I found 2 flaws: the glue with which the decor of the walls was glued on, came of on one small section.
The other flaw was that we (we had a Skipper on board) absolutely did not manage to turn the boat with the bow through the wind (sorry, don`t know the expresson in english). The reason for this was not lack of maneuverability but the sinple fact that the genua constantly got stuck between first and second forestay (if that is the correct Name...). Even turning the boat with the back through the wind (Expression in english not known) became a Major issue because the 2 forestays are simply too close to each other.
Otherwise it was a fantastic eperience. I had imagined the ship to conveye a faster Impression but when we "blizzed" some hobie 15, I realized that the lack of overwhelming speed has to do something with beeing relatively high about the waterline. We sailed with genua alone with wind coming from 120° astern and reached 13 knots in beaufort 4. My wife (first time on board) was preparing dinner during this ride without any problems.
The Skipper had sailed many different neel 45 and had never experienced any Quality issues. We talked about your YouTube movie and he did some research work. I feel obliged to share it with the community:

Transom failure: apparently you tried to tow a motoryacht and overstressed the neel 45.

Furthermore:
Carbon Monoxide poisening:
You cannot blame a shipyard for unproperly installing an item that is not on the shipyards list of extras for the boat.

I think you are dramatizing the heater issue: You may have cought some smoke but may I remind you that: a.) carbon monoxide kills you without you having any symptoms at all. b.) It was a diesel unit. Diesel Units do not emmit carbon monoxide...