New Boat vs Used Boat?

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

And, again, not all dealers and boat manufacturers are the same. I've heard great things said about Outremer...

Yes, Outremer have made a conscious effort to provide better customer service and after sales support over recent years and really upsell their brand since they became part of Groupe Grande Large.

But like all builders they still rely on the 3rd party equipment providers and installers too of course. If you have a B&G instrument problem, your first and initial help might be with Outremer, but more serious issues will be with B&G.

And this just can't really be especially helpful for warranty type issues and repairs if you are remote cruising somewhere in the Pacific, just because of the physical distance, location, and practicality of the situation. They are not going to fly a technician to a remote atoll to help you under warranty. They will say 'bring the boat to our service partner' (the closest of which might be in NZ, or Aus depending on the company).

Even in the Bahamas (so not that remote by comparison) I remember Sailing La Vagabonde having autopilot issues that couldn't be resolved. This meant they struggled to run the boat shorthanded, and certainly struggled to sail it short handed. Not good... (my earlier points about redundancy should be noted...)

I do believe that The Sailing Family got good support from Outremer when their boat came off a mooring in French Polynesia. But in that case the damage was significant, the boat needed to go into yard for months, and they flew home to the USA while the repairs were done.

That's not really anything to do with new boat vs old or warranty vs none. (they bought their boat second hand). That's really 'support' vs 'warranty' which is different.

So warranty or not, and different companies or not, physical help under warranty (or not) will be limited when remote cruising.

Have spare parts, have backups, have redundancy.

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

I don't think they are worse than worthless.

For one thing, they force the builders and dealers to hand over better-quality boats. That is, to fix the things themselves when it's more cost-efficient rather than later when it's expensive, logistically challenging and you get angry customers badmouthing their brand on the internets.

And, again, not all dealers and boat manufacturers are the same. I've heard great things said about Outremer. My personal experience with the Hanse Group (now owners of the Privilege brand mentioned) has been great as well, but I didn't buy a Privilege, so who knows.

I was very impressed with a Privilege 62 that I toured. It was a 2006. I really wanted to make an offer but since I know so little I need to look and learn first.

15 years old and the woodwork, floor, cabinets were immaculate. And the price would leave 300k in my boat budget for outfit repairs.

What about a 15 year old boat like this?

Is that too old?

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

I think the above points are very relevant, especially when you are long distance remote cruising, moving countries, moving oceans, etc

So I take the approach that the space, payload, technical characteristics, and overall ability of this larger vessel could instead be viewed as an advantage for the OP's proposed use.

- more than 1 head, use the 2nd when the first is broken
- more than 1 fridge, use the 2nd when the first is broken
- more than 1 watermaker, use the 2nd when the first is broken
- more than 1 engine, use the 2nd when the first is broken
- more than 1 genset, use the 2nd when the first is broken
(or have an alternative solar/battery/alternator setup, etc)

I could go on, but I think the point is established. Because things will break, regardless of a new boat, a second hand boat, or any warranty.

It's often mentioned about boats sitting in ports waiting for parts and repairs so it's good to be able to avoid that as much as possible, being in a position to time repairs more conveniently in relation to location, or simply the situation onboard.

Some cruisers will do that by being more minimalist and/or doing without.

Other cruisers want/need the comforts or technical capabilities and will choose to have redundancy.

My 2 cents. Maybe some more food for thought

My thinking exactly.

Additionally I intend to fit a high output generator on each engine and a massive solar array and lithium batties in a big bank.

Two gens, two eng gens, solar, big battery bank = cruise does not go into hiatus when one gen goes down.

I have one generator on my current boat. 4kw Onan. It broke. Bought brand new one. Never worked right. Replaced every part one at a time until the only thing left was the powerhead. So bit the bullet and bought another new one. Did not work. 5 visits later by Onan techs it seems to now work. They covered the work and parts, yet I had to puck up the travel bill each time. So on a $3k gen, brand new, I have $2,500 in labor travel costs.

I had an Evinrude E-tec, 2 year lawsuit. Zero back up of 10 year warranty after one year. They paid.

Yamaha, no better.

So in the boat big leagues my minor league experience is that warranties are worse than worthless. You all seem to be confirming that.

[Group9]

My old harbor master, who with his wife had delivered boats for twenty years told me of one lesson he had learned. That he could be delivering some fifteen year old, neglected, brand x boat, or a million dollar yacht straight out of the factory, and the chances of breaking down on the trip were about even.

He had two hilarious stories of really expensive yachts, that I remember in particular, not even making it out of sight of the factory, before having to be towed back in (one that actually caught on fire).

He had another good story off taking a new customer out on his (well known) brand new, just purchased, go fast, and noticing water pouring into the bilge and barely getting it back to the factory dock (by cutting the intake hoses of two of the three engines and using them as 400 hp bilge pumps) and out of the water before it would have sunk.

[LeeV]

The boats I have owned and sold were in better shape when I sold them. While I (like many) fancy owning a new boat, the one we did buy new had rigging issues and other items that took a year to repair. I won’t buy another brand new bot, but I must admit it’s also due to funds.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

I was very impressed with a Privilege 62 that I toured. It was a 2006. I really wanted to make an offer but since I know so little I need to look and learn first.

15 years old and the woodwork, floor, cabinets were immaculate. And the price would leave 300k in my boat budget for outfit repairs.

What about a 15 year old boat like this?

Is that too old?

Not too old. Still depends on overall condition and condition of various subsystems, but 15 years isn't huge in the grand scheme of fiberglass boats.

In fact, some examples might have many of the subsystems recently replaced at about that point... and there's something to be said for new ACs, new electronics, etc.

Even better, get the price right on a boat that has NOT been updated like that, do the updates yourself so you know where you stand on everything. And you can update to your own preferred level of "good/better/best" too..

-Chris

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Not too old. Still depends on overall condition and condition of various subsystems, but 15 years isn't huge in the grand scheme of fiberglass boats.

In fact, some examples might have many of the subsystems recently replaced at about that point... and there's something to be said for new ACs, new electronics, etc.

Even better, get the price right on a boat that has NOT been updated like that, do the updates yourself so you know where you stand on everything. And you can update to your own preferred level of "good/better/best" too..

-Chris

[nolakennedys]

If you can afford to buy new, I would suggest doing just that.

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by nolakennedys

If you can afford to buy new, I would suggest doing just that.

Why? State your reasons?

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Not too old. Still depends on overall condition and condition of various subsystems, but 15 years isn't huge in the grand scheme of fiberglass boats.

In fact, some examples might have many of the subsystems recently replaced at about that point... and there's something to be said for new ACs, new electronics, etc.

Even better, get the price right on a boat that has NOT been updated like that, do the updates yourself so you know where you stand on everything. And you can update to your own preferred level of "good/better/best" too..

-Chris

Originally Posted by LeeV

There are likely few new boats available in the OP's size range, perhaps for several years. There is often a lot of time spent fitting out a new boat, sea trials, fix-it lists, etc..



The OP has two years and a very ambitious schedule. I'd be looking for a used boat in the best condition possible. Turnkey is a dream, but the closer you can get, the sooner you can get underway. Avoid upgrading, do the maintenance. End of two years you can sell it or not. Life changes.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

Get a late model boat where the owner installed all the bells and whistles and avoid the depreciation and the hassle of commissioning. Easy call.

i like that idea as well. but finding it can take years of looking

[nolakennedys]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

Why? State your reasons?

Because time is an enemy, and most older boats were not properly cared for. Mine is a patchwork of crap repairs on the inside. I am overhauling it but it is very labor intensive. Once its done, it will meet our needs fine, however something to consider is that marinas are becoming pickier. I have had several ask what year and just say no before even seeing her condition once it will be done. Also insurance is getting harder to get for older boats. If we could have realistically been able to afford something that was all new, we would have went that route. at least when it's all new, you're starting even across the board with systems maintenance.

[elee]

Here's my view on your question. We're two adults with two young children planning a 2 year sabbatical. It is goes well, we'd extend it indefinitely. We narrowed it down to a 44-46 ft catamaran, non-charter, 3 cabin. Like everyone else, our preferred vintage was around 3 years old.

Our short list was mainly Leopard, Fountaine-Pajot, and we'd consider Outremer, Privilege, Nautitech, Seawind, etc.

So over 6-8 months last year since we firmed up our arbitrary departure deadline of fall 2022, we browsed listing, and guess what, there are no boats of that criteria out there that wasn't the same price as a new build. We decided to go for a new Leopard so as not to risk a sellers market with low to no inventory while our family sits idle ready to go.

We've been plannning this for 8 years and never thought we'd buy used, but the present environment shaped our decision, so as it stands, we'll have a boat ready to go when we are.

You'll notice that people say there is going to be boat work regardless of how new or old the boat is, so we've accepted that will be part of the lifestyle for us, and I'm looking forward to maintaining our new boat, rather than a used.

Also, in our circumstances as it sounds like it may be in yours, depreciation and resell value is lower down as a priority, which I can be an important consideration.

As specifically for the Leopard 45, we liked the space and weren't in a rush to get anywhere (which seems to be a huge deal for a lot of people), so the price to value ratio for us was good. Maybe in the future, we'd buy something else.

There are a lot of Leopards out there, good community for questions and troubleshooting. You heard about the L50 with the diesel issues but I there are 100s out there going around without (major) issues. In your quest, you might consider calling up the Leopard dealers and asking them what the deal was with those engines for another angle to the story.

So in summary, if there was a reasonable chance that there will be a used boat that fits our criteria, we would have. But the market didn't look promising that way, so we are buying new.

[dc9loser]

Originally Posted by elee

Here's my view on your question. We're two adults with two young children planning a 2 year sabbatical. It is goes well, we'd extend it indefinitely. We narrowed it down to a 44-46 ft catamaran, non-charter, 3 cabin. Like everyone else, our preferred vintage was around 3 years old.

Our short list was mainly Leopard, Fountaine-Pajot, and we'd consider Outremer, Privilege, Nautitech, Seawind, etc.

So over 6-8 months last year since we firmed up our arbitrary departure deadline of fall 2022, we browsed listing, and guess what, there are no boats of that criteria out there that wasn't the same price as a new build.

Strange. Maybe adjusting criteria would have been in order?

Just saying, I have so far spent one quick visit to see some Catamarans and found 4 out of 4 that met my basic criteria. The problem is my hesitancy to make a large commitment without proper knowledge and market research etc.

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

Strange. Maybe adjusting criteria would have been in order?

Just saying, I have so far spent one quick visit to see some Catamarans and found 4 out of 4 that met my basic criteria. The problem is my hesitancy to make a large commitment without proper knowledge and market research etc.

Been watching this thread for a while. You've found the perfect boat, a Privilege. After 12 years, a lot of charterer abuse, a circumnavigation, the structure and furniture of my Privilege didn't squeak or groan at all. I was once aboard a new 48 ft boat from one of the big three where the furniture was squeaking at the dock in a sheltered marina.