New Boat vs Used Boat?

[Joli]

We sail a used boat, actually very used but it's been a good boat for us for the past 20 years. We invest in the boat regularly keeping it clean and safe with new gear and upgrades. We also work on the boat quite a bit which maybe isn't everyone's cup of tea.

Would we buy it again after knowing what we know now, for us yes. Has it been financially advantageous to buy used versus new, again the answer is yes.

Buying new the biggest risk is depreciation but with the market so hot for boats right now possibly that has changed?

Anyway, good luck with your search and decision.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

Been watching this thread for a while. You've found the perfect boat, a Privilege. After 12 years, a lot of charterer abuse, a circumnavigation, the structure and furniture of my Privilege didn't squeak or groan at all. I was once aboard a new 48 ft boat from one of the big three where the furniture was squeaking at the dock in a sheltered marina.

https://youtu.be/7Cw7R2OnvD4

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by smj

https://youtu.be/7Cw7R2OnvD4

Great video. Thanks for posting. They didn't have those when I was buying my boat back in 2002. I went to the factory three times during the build and they used the same process for the whole range even back then.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

Great video. Thanks for posting. They didn't have those when I was buying my boat back in 2002. I went to the factory three times during the build and they used the same process for the whole range even back then.

[emoji1303]the Rolls Royce of catamarans.

[elee]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

Strange. Maybe adjusting criteria would have been in order?

Not at all. I know what I want and will be getting it when I want it, and made the best decision for my circumstances. Best part is when we sell it in 3 years, it will be the unicorn that every one wants (Fingers crossed for no boat glut!). Sounds like you've got a lot of options. When the analysis paralysis is over, I'm sure you'll enjoy your boat too. Best wishes.

[malbert73]

Here’s the funniest way to express my opinion from this vloggers website

https://sailingintofreedom.com/tips/

“Don’t buy a brand new boat. What you do, is you let someone else do this for you. They pay the obscene price and then test it for you over a few years so you can see where it is failing and not up to scratch. Sometimes they even repair it properly so it is better than before. I like these people. They are the most wonderful people around. They see you in the future buying their boat. They know your lack of funds and your concern about the strength and durability of the boat. They then, out of the goodness of their hearts, make the decision to buy it for you brand new, test it and then give you a discount after all the testing because they are such good blokes. These people are the best people ever. And I mean ever.”

[David Ess]

One valid reason for NOT being a new boat is because they often take a long time to make. Look at that nice Möbius boat. The owners have been waiting over 5 years for it, had to do a lot of the work themselves, and STILL its not ready for sea!!!!!

[B4A]

Originally Posted by b_ohare

What Russ and Keith claim in this video is spot-on. I'm going through this right now with Lagoon (and for the past 2+ months). The negativity I have for the policies and behaviors of Lagoon's representatives grows with each day I'm given the run-around or have to wait to get service. I am APPALLED how Lagoon and its dealers act when it comes to warranty. From what I understand from some of the dealers, quite a bit of this is because Lagoon (and I assume the rest of the major manufacturers) does everything they can to avoid paying for troubleshooting or claims and, when they do, their reimbursement rate is so minimal that it doesn't really make sense for a dealer to spend their limited service people (who are so backed-up with more profitable paying customers) fixing warranty problems for a reduced rate. (I'm also told it takes forever for dealers to get reimbursement from Lagoon). I had one Lagoon dealer outright discourage me from coming to them because they didn't want to get involved in warranty work. Additionally, Lagoon's policy is that you can't find your own local mechanic to make the fixes (as the dealers might not be able to schedule you for months) and then get properly reimbursed. So the onus is on you to get the boat to the closest dealer (which might be very far away or in a very expensive area). Finally, all the costs for the time you're waiting at a marina or getting the work done is on you - Lagoon will not reimburse for dock fees even if it's a perfectly valid warranty issue.



I was advised by one Lagoon dealer: "just bite the bullet, get local people to fix the problems, and then submit your claims to Lagoon; if you get 20% back, consider yourself lucky." Wow - just wow.



Related, I spent a few months at a Cape Town marina where new Leopards were being commissioned. From what I understand, the commissioning process takes so long and each boat often has major work done on those docks because they are so poorly manufactured at the factory. I've been told both by workers on those boats and delivery skippers that it's a ****-show. I was also told a story about one new Leopard with major structural problems identified by the delivery skipper. It took many thousands and months of screwing around (engineering reports, lawyers, etc.) to finally get Leopard to build a new boat for the owner. It was only after the owner threatened to change the name of the boat (to reflect the structural problem) and advertise the problems in newspapers that Leopard finally relented. Appalling...



When you buy a boat with a warranty for such a significant amount of money, it is reasonable to expect the manufacturer will act with integrity. From my experience, Lagoon does not. I do not accept "well, that's the way it works in the industry." It is beyond a slap-in-the-face to new owners and shameful behavior. I would bet the only way to change this behavior is to stop buying new boats/boats with warranties. They haven't any reason to change if there aren't negative consequences for their behavior.



As an aside, and as the manufacturer warranties are basically useless only causing new owners grief, I see a great opportunity for insurance companies to enter the business of providing extended warranties that are actually meaningful and useful.

I'm afraid to contradict you. I took delivery of my Leopard in Cape Town in 2018. Spent 3 months in Cape Grace marina (most beautiful marina I've ever seen in 18K nm sailed around the world) and fitted all systems aftermarket.

Very inexpensive labor and top notch engineers and riggers.

Saved myself thousands of dollars and had enough time to get warranty items.

To go back on topic, new boats are not free of defects, just like used ones aren't as well.

The difference is that you are covered by warranty. Robertson and Caine always honored the warranty.

That's my first hand experience. You can read more on my blog ( www.sailingoroboro.com

[Laxlife]

Used.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by dc9loser

Which is better. To buy a solid well-surveyed used boat or a brand new boat with a warranty.

Lets say you have a million to spend. You plan to sail halfway around the world. You are looking at acquiring a sailing Catamaran to do it in.

Is it better to buy new or used given that you might have several hundred thousand in the kitty for repairs by saving on the used boat vs prepaid repairs via a warranty?

My limited experience with generator and outboard manufacturers is that the warranty is worthless?

What do you all think?

The attached video is overly long but covers a new boat buyer struggling with getting his warrantees covered.

https://youtu.be/EAEaeM4uH2g

I’m going to look at this from a different angle. When I started my last search i was in love with one of the new boats. As I looked at other boats i saw something i was surprised by but shouldn’t have been. Boats in the 1980’s have beautiful teak wood interiors. When you get into the 1990’s they become wood veneers. In the 2000’s you see the veneer giving way to more fiberglass interiors. So one thought is what do “YOU” like? If you are going to truly live aboard this might be very important. How many people spend a lot of money decorating their home to make it comfortable for them?

In my world I realized I wanted that older teak interior that gives that warm feeling. Yet I want a state of the art Chartplotter, with Radar and AIS. I also want davits with Solar Panels over them. I want the ability to have other conveniences like a Microwave.

So what it comes down to it what do you want in a finished boat? I’m suggesting reverse engineering the process. Start at what you want in the finished boat. Start with the hull. Then what about the interior. Then go to the mast and sails. You will soon answer your own question. Electronics and all the other goodies can easily be added.

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

I don't think they are worse than worthless.

For one thing, they force the builders and dealers to hand over better-quality boats. That is, to fix the things themselves when it's more cost-efficient rather than later when it's expensive, logistically challenging and you get angry customers badmouthing their brand on the internets.

And, again, not all dealers and boat manufacturers are the same. I've heard great things said about Outremer. My personal experience with the Hanse Group (now owners of the Privilege brand mentioned) has been great as well, but I didn't buy a Privilege, so who knows.

Sorry to contradict: we bought our first boat new: a hanse 375. We had to treaten with lawyers to get everything sorted out. Fortunately our insurance covered building quality problems and they backed us. As a result on our second boat we didn’t even take Hanse in consideration

[David Mathis]

Perhaps the start to this question is a bit off. Rather than stating that you have a million to spend, it might be better to decide the size shape and flavor of the boat that best suits you. One might assume that if you have to ask this question, you might be lacking a bit in experience. Sailing a large cat in light air might be a pleasure but managing it in a serious storm might prove to be more of a challenge than you can safely handle.

As to warranty work on a new boat, a few other responses have summarized this issue.
Finding a new boat can bring about a unique level of frustration and you would expect to pay a premium price along with a having substantial wait to step aboard. Your 2022 model might be delivered a few months after the projected 2023 delivery date, if luck is with you.

If I was buying another boat, it would likely be 5-8 years old but possibly vary a couple years either way from that number. The price on the used boat has come down substantially from the purchase price, if it hasn't been abused it probably doesn't need major upgrades, and it's available now. Also, you can buy a 45-50' boat a just few years old for the price of a new 36-40.

[Paul_Carroll]

I think you answered you own question. Warrantees are not much good, and seldom cover the full costs. Really, the problem with buying a new boat is the horrible hit you take on depreciation, which is typically MUCH more than the cost of fixing the things that need doing on a well-found used boat.
The exception to that is if you are trying to put the boat into charter service. Then the standard of perfection that the boat would have to be brought to is simply too high to make it practical to refurbish a boat to that degree. Thus the reason that so many 5-8 year old, ex-charter, boats go on the market.

One other thing to think about, I have been doing a lot of thinking on this matter recently, is how much are you willing to pour into a boat each year? The age, complexity and initial cost of the boat will drive that amount. Rule of thumb is 3 - 5% of the brand-new cost of the vessel each year for maintenance and upkeep. That does not include the cost of docking, etc. If you are a very handy type you can shoot to the low end, but if not I would plan on 6%. If you can't live with that, then it may be more boat that you can afford. And remember: Deferred maintenance ALWAYS costs you more...

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by Paul_Carroll

I think you answered you own question. Warrantees are not much good, and seldom cover the full costs. Really, the problem with buying a new boat is the horrible hit you take on depreciation, which is typically MUCH more than the cost of fixing the things that need doing on a well-found used boat.
The exception to that is if you are trying to put the boat into charter service. Then the standard of perfection that the boat would have to be brought to is simply too high to make it practical to refurbish a boat to that degree. Thus the reason that so many 5-8 year old, ex-charter, boats go on the market.

One other thing to think about, I have been doing a lot of thinking on this matter recently, is how much are you willing to pour into a boat each year? The age, complexity and initial cost of the boat will drive that amount. Rule of thumb is 3 - 5% of the brand-new cost of the vessel each year for maintenance and upkeep. That does not include the cost of docking, etc. If you are a very handy type you can shoot to the low end, but if not I would plan on 6%. If you can't live with that, then it may be more boat that you can afford. And remember: Deferred maintenance ALWAYS costs you more...

On your rule of thumb 3-5% of the new cost of the boat, do you really mean it if we buy a new boat for $2 million, you think it will take $100k in the first 2 years for maintenance? That cant be right.

[Happ]

As to new boat keep this in mind. What dealers call sail away packages are good if you are sailing the next harbor. Anything more add sails, electronics, dinghy with motor. I sailed a 57’ Jeanneau that the owner spent 6 months getting the finished after he took delivery! I will say this he did a great job. The first offshore passage everything worked perfectly.