New EXCESS 11

[arsenelupiga]

looking at polars for excess 11 . It can do nearly 5 KN VMG in 8 kn true.

Is this for real ?

[marcok]

We've sailed the Excess 11 now twice. Once with 18 kn (full main, full jib) and once with 6-8 kn.

The first time I wasn't paying much attention to the VMG, pointing angles etc as it was the first time on the boat.

The second time we we used the Code0 uptil 55 degrees AWA and doing 4.8 knots in 7 knots of wind consistently. Don't take this n=1 observation as the definitive answer

Note; we sailed the regular, non Pulse line version at the time (we order the Pulse Line). In the brochure there 2 polars, one for the regular and oen for the Pulse Line (taller mast, different sails including Code0/Gen)

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by marcok

We've sailed the Excess 11 now twice. Once with 18 kn (full main, full jib) and once with 6-8 kn.

The first time I wasn't paying much attention to the VMG, pointing angles etc as it was the first time on the boat.

The second time we we used the Code0 uptil 55 degrees AWA and doing 4.8 knots in 7 knots of wind consistently. Don't take this n=1 observation as the definitive answer

Note; we sailed the regular, non Pulse line version at the time (we order the Pulse Line). In the brochure there 2 polars, one for the regular and oen for the Pulse Line (taller mast, different sails including Code0/Gen)

It is ok for first time. I remember doing 5 kn in 20 kn true, first day.

You need extremely tight halyard to get optimal performance from code 0, not just for upwind but reaching also.

What tension did you create in code 0 halyard - any guidelines from Excess/Lagoon?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Still heavy and balsa cored like a lagoon, heavier than a 12m 40 foot nautitech, 2.5 tons heavier than a similar sized seawind, 2.5 tons is a lot in a small cat like this one. The flimsy folding helm seats are right over the back, you need to fold them to exist the boat, just bad design, also doesn't feel that safe . Paid reviews mention views through the saloon is good but that is two layers of glass and you are sitting 1/3 of a boat length away from the first set of glass. visibility will be horrible especially given some people complain about the seawind setup which is lightyears better. Winches are not within easy reach of the helms man and it looks like you need to behalf kneeling on the stairs to get good leverage, nautitech has better winch positions.

Rely on high performance laminate sails to get the decent polars.

Can't see any reason to get it over the nautitech 40open which is foam cored.

Excess is going to have a 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15...........a little excessive?

there are rules in EU how boat weight is measured and i believe excess is following them. You need to ensure first that you compare apple with apple.

To measure weight lagoon(and expect excel) include 1/2 full all holding tanks, water tanks, diesel tanks and boat includes all equipment so it is fully functional. I have seen reported weights excluding even engines by some manufacturers and these numbers still maskerade today.

You go to boat show, take meter and camera with you and do your own measurements width hull length LWL, etc. You will likely be surprised as I was. It is not that difficult to measure/estimate weight of the boat by calculating water volume it displaces, for one that you are really interested in.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

looking at polars for excess 11 . It can do nearly 5 KN VMG in 8 kn true.

Is this for real ?

Polars don't measure VMG, they can't measure VMG and at 2.5 tonne heavier or 33% heavier than the longer Seawind- its not sailing out of sight on a dark night with a cyclone up its posterior

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Factor

Polars don't measure VMG, they can't measure VMG and at 2.5 tonne heavier or 33% heavier than the longer Seawind- its not sailing out of sight on a dark night with a cyclone up its posterior

from polar one can see boat can do 6.7 kn at 50 deg true in 8 kn wind. THat means 4.3 kn VMG (component of speed directly against wind). I bet it is using gennaker running inside shrouds and able to do 27-28 apparent angle. HUH !

[marcok]

In case you're interested; we'll be sailing the Excess 11 from the South of Netherlands to Amsterdam via de North Sea (60 miles) in 2 weeks from now. I'll let you know how things went

[Factor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

from polar one can see boat can do 6.7 kn at 50 deg true in 8 kn wind. THat means 4.3 kn VMG (component of speed directly against wind). I bet it is using gennaker running inside shrouds and able to do 27-28 apparent angle. HUH !

I will say it again Polars cant MEASURE VMG, they simply can't. They can- much like polars generally make a theoretical estimate of VMG to windward, but the polar diagram is in and of itself also a theoretical estimate, utilising much data, but primarily displacement, sail area LWL. They often are drawn to make no allowance for rough water, which seems a little silly in higher wind speeds, what none that I have seen do is make allowance for aerodynamic drag, which is just as important as drag through the water. Thus a slab fronted boat which may have similar polar to a boat with no cabin at all beam reaching will make dramatically less speed the close to the wind. I would need to see the parameters for your VPP ( Velocity PREDICTION Program), to see if it included a calculation for frontal area. I also note that when people say Polars, what they mean is VPP. And I note that the First P is for PREDICTION.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Factor

I will say it again Polars cant MEASURE VMG, they simply can't. They can- much like polars generally make a theoretical estimate of VMG to windward, but the polar diagram is in and of itself also a theoretical estimate, utilising much data, but primarily displacement, sail area LWL. They often are drawn to make no allowance for rough water, which seems a little silly in higher wind speeds, what none that I have seen do is make allowance for aerodynamic drag, which is just as important as drag through the water. Thus a slab fronted boat which may have similar polar to a boat with no cabin at all beam reaching will make dramatically less speed the close to the wind. I would need to see the parameters for your VPP ( Velocity PREDICTION Program), to see if it included a calculation for frontal area. I also note that when people say Polars, what they mean is VPP. And I note that the First P is for PREDICTION.

hahahah, you use polars to criticise when polars are bad but not when they are good
See this polar of Lagoon 400, that everyone is referring to when I post my sailing performance that is good for cruising cat, say sub 90 tacks over ground. What it looks to me this polars must be for max loaded L 400 (5,000 kg!) as we are faster than this on any point of sail. No stretching of truth here

[Factor]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

hahahah, you use polars to criticise when polars are bad but not when they are good :

I think you have me confused with someone else. I have never utilised polars to endorse or to reject particular boats, to me they are useful predictive programs and not much more.