New here: lots and lots and lots of questions :)

[JPA Cate]

Well, flagator, you ask interesting questions.

Too old? You're the only one besides your doc who knows what underlying conditions you have and how physically active you are likely to be happy being. If you're really unsure, then you have to choose between giving it a go, and pulling back to something more in your comfort zone. If you're young enough to get in shape to haul yourself up the mast to work as the masthead, and in good health...sure, but perhaps not long offshore passages alone.

Too late? You were pretty coy about your age, but you write as if you're 50-ish. What you lack is many years in which to develop seamanship, good judgment on the water, in a sailboat. Don't kid yourself that sailboating is cheap. It isn't, good sails are expensive, and all boats depreciate. Learning how to sail is fairly easily done, but acquiring a strong sense of seamanship will take the rest of your life, 'cause you never dare stop learning. What you are going to have to learn is all your systems if you plan to maintain the boat yourself, so how are you at learning the stuff you don't know? Again, you have the answer better than we.

Alone? Yes, but. If it all works out for you, along the way, and you can get yourself aloft and think you can handle emergencies at sea. But, you will be better served by taking crew on long passages. The extra pair of eyes at night is useful.

Say you're 60. Get yourself a used Catalina 30, learn the Colregs, and hire a skipper to train you-- and sail the heck out of it. If it all fits for you, in a year or two, you'll be placed well for a more serious cruising boat. If you find it's tedious, or too much work, then sell it and move on.

Ann

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by flagatorclearwa

How ironic. I drafted a long first post for this forum and then decided to keep reading threads and came across this one. Obviously I'm not the only guy rethinking his life right now! A lot of great advice and warnings here, and some of my questions have been answered. I especially liked the "YouTube is not real life" comments. I do have some questions not really addressed yet, so I'll just post what I had drafted:

I’m a 59 year old Floridian who, until a couple of months ago, lived in Clearwater. A few years ago I became convinced the U.S. was headed for hard times and I needed to make my business as lean as possible. I developed software to totally automate and virtualize my business. Now I can run it in a few hours per week from anywhere as long as I can access the internet. As my company sells a business service to restaurants, hotels, retail stores, etc. my business is on ice anyway, and I have no idea what the future holds for it. Early this year I felt like time was running out for the real estate bubble, so I listed my home and the commercial property where I built my company in Clearwater. My house sold in March and I moved up to rural north Florida to my vacation home on the Suwanee River. The commercial property just went under contract, so in a month or two I will be cashed out of all hard assets other than my river house. I’m secure financially.

I’ve been killing myself working for 30 years, and I’m ready for some changes. If I’m lucky I have maybe 10-15 years left to be physically active and live life. As much as I love my place here in Dixie County, I know I can’t live here full time permanently. I can only pontoon boat for so long. I’m bored out of my mind. As I’ve anticipated some life changes for a while, I've done some preparation. I’ve spent many months travelling throughout Mexico and Central America, thinking about the possibility of becoming an expat. I have permanent residency visas in both Mexico and Panama. I speak a little Spanish and I pick it up pretty quickly. A few weeks ago I stumbled upon a YouTube channel called Project Atticus about a couple that restored a project boat and have been cruising the Caribbean. Something clicked in me. It seemed a lot more interesting than living in a glass skyscraper in Panama or a beach house in Mexico. I started binge-watching. Then I found this forum and have been binge-reading. I’ve spent hours looking at boats on yachtworld.com. I’ve found even more YouTube channels, including Sailing Parlay Revival. I’ve renovated many homes in my years, so I could relate to the project. After hundreds of hours immersed in this stuff, I think I have more questions than answers.

I’ve been boating for over 20 years, and handled my most recent boat, a 41 SeaRay Sundancer, with no problem. I’m familiar with the basic systems and comfortable with most maintenance and minor repairs. From having the Sundancer, I’m pretty sure I don’t want to go back to a large powerboat. I’m too cheap to go very far burning 25 gallons of diesel an hour, and the places that interest me are out of range on a boat like that anyway. I have nothing but time, so sailing seems like a good option.

Am I too old? Sailing seems to require a whole different level of physicality than power boating. I watch the guy on Project Atticus strap into a harness and hoist himself to the top of the mast to fix the rigging. He makes it look easy, but he’s 28. I’m not sure I can do that.

Am I starting too late? Can I learn enough in a reasonable timeframe to safely cruise the Caribbean? Power boating up and down the ICW and 20 miles out into the gulf is as adventurous as I ever got. BTW I have no aspirations to cross the Atlantic. Just the Caribbean (including the Mexican and Central American coast).

Can I do it alone? I’m single, and I’ve yet to see a YouTube sailing channel that is one guy doing it alone. I can afford a newer boat, so has newer technology made being solo more feasible? If not, how hard is it to find one or more people who would go with me?

In considering vessel types, I’m pretty sure a cat is what I’d like. First, the wide beam just seems safer and more stable. Second, I like being above the waterline. I hated being below on my Sundancer. I only went down there to sleep. I wouldn’t say I’m claustrophobic, but I like a little space and headroom, and I like to see outside. I like the confidence of having two engines, and assuming it works on a cat like it did on my dual-engine Sundancer, it makes maneuvering in the marina and docking much easier. I also like my creature comforts. I want ample fridge and freezer, an icemaker, and at least AC in the master berth. I can’t sleep in heat. The 38-45 Leopards and Lagoons the charters use look awesome.

I saw a smart suggestion on a blog called The Boat Galley: charter the boat you think you like. Are charters running in the Caribbean? It seems like everything is still locked down. If I charter, can I hire a skipper that will teach me about the basics of sailing so I can decide whether to take the plunge?

I would gladly crew for free to learn, but of course no one wants crew (even for free) that has no sailing knowledge or experience.

Is this whole idea silly and should I just take up golf?

You are not too old. There are circumnavigaters out there that are much older than you and since your goal is just the Caribbean this is totally within your reach. Don't short change the crew members with no experience as the major need for extra hands is to take watch duties (three people are optimal for this) and you really only need one person (you) that knows the boat - top to bottom. Inexperienced sailors are taught to sail everyday as no one is born with this skill. It sounds like you'd be looking at a cat based on your preferences. The Leopards are a far better choice than the Lagoons (too many bean counters in their boat yard). There are members of this forum that specialize in boat surveys and teaching on board skills specific to the boat you buy. Dave Skolnick (Auspicious) comes to mind, he's up in Annapolis but there are similar type guys in Florida who also do this. If you're still on the fence over whether you actually like sailing, by all means do a charter (they'll insist you have a skipper) before you drop the big money on a boat. This Covid mess won't last much longer but you have time to discuss this plan with a potential skipper/captain who is willing to teach you about the boat while on your delivery/shakedown cruise. I say shakedown because virtually all used boats need something and you might not realize what that is until you sail it for a week or so. BTW - check out the O'kellys on You Tube. They bought a Leopard 46' ex charter boat from the Moorings and they have a lot of insight that may interest you regarding this.

[Tupaia]

Flagator,

I would gladly crew for free to learn, but of course no one wants crew (even for free) that has no sailing knowledge or experience.

Not true. You already have boat handling skills, safety skills, nav skills just not sail handling explain this and there will be lots of takers. This will give you far more sailing experience than chartering. You need to get out there by contacting yacht clubs they will always have an owner who has been let down, brokers they know the delivery skippers and who is buying. Walk the pontoons and give out your contact details. Put yourself on Crew Finders. Being single and immediately available gives you a huge advantage.

The other advantage is that you will experience different boats and get to decide what works for.

[flagatorclearwa]

Thank you for the replies. I few responses:

I'm 59 and I'n carrying about 50 extra lbs. from riding a computer all day for the last 10 years. Working on that. I have high blood pressure but keep it in control with a scrip. Other than that no issues. I'm definitely not the buff fitness dude that Plan D is, but I'm still reasonably strong and do resistance training 3-4x per week as well as cardio on a treadmill. No gyms up in these parts! I doubt I can hoist myself to the top of the mast, so maybe I should focus on trawlers?

As far as understanding the costs of boating, believe me I know. The 41 Sundancer was 15 years old when I bought her. It was always something. I didn't have time to do everything myself at that time, and now I have nothing but time, so I know I could save some by DIY, but I still expect to spend $5-10k per year on maintenance/repairs/upgrades. My "cheap" comment was simply that when I'm burning $125/hr. in diesel it kind of spoils the fun of making big trips.

I checked out the Catalina 30. I could not live on one, but maybe liveaboard shouldn't be my first step. Maybe I should get something like that, keep it at a marina, spend a year or two learning the ropes, and then take the plunge to a $300-400k big cat if I still want to.

I'm encouraged that maybe someone would have me as crew and the points about getting exposure to different boats makes sense. I will definitely post on Crew Finders.

The point about needing extra crew for watch duties raises another question. Last night I watched an episode of Project Atticus. They sailed straight from Isla Mujeres to San Pedro Belize. It took three days and beat the sh*t out of those kids. My question is why? I know that whole coast of Quintana Roo (and Belize down to Punta Gorda) pretty well. I spent weeks exploring by car. I think they could have broken that trip up into several bite-size chunks of mainly day sailing. I get that for some passages you have no alternative but to do it straight, but why do that if you don't have to? If I'm in a hurry I should get a powercat, right? What am I missing?

[Tupaia]

I wouldn't get too 'hung up' (sorry couldn't resist) about going up the mast. There are lots of ladders and other devices that enable this. It is not a common requirement, sure if you are crossing an ocean but if there is a problem along the coast most times you can motor to the nearest harbour.


With regard to a powercat, if you don't mind motoring and don't want to go 20 knots this will be more economic than a sailing cat, decent sails are not without cost and they are consumables.

[flagatorclearwa]

So you're suggesting that even with fuel costs a powercat will cost less than a sailcat? My experience has been with diesels that burned 25 GPH at about 18 knots. That added up quick. In the lifestyle I'm envisioning, I'll be stopped 95% of the time. For me it's mainly about the destinations.

What about range? I'm guessing I want to be able to go 300 nm or so, maybe 350 to build in a margin of error. My interests are limited to the Caribbean, Mexico and Central/northern South America (Panama and maybe Colombia).

[Tupaia]

This is just an example steer clear of the speed orientated models.


https://www.lightwaveyachts.com/why-...es-comments-2/


It was only a suggestion but given you are already versed in power boats.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by flagatorclearwa

So you're suggesting that even with fuel costs a powercat will cost less than a sailcat? My experience has been with diesels that burned 25 GPH at about 18 knots. That added up quick. In the lifestyle I'm envisioning, I'll be stopped 95% of the time. For me it's mainly about the destinations.

What about range? I'm guessing I want to be able to go 300 nm or so, maybe 350 to build in a margin of error. My interests are limited to the Caribbean, Mexico and Central/northern South America (Panama and maybe Colombia).

There are go-fast power cats and there are long range power cats that are pretty efficient. The PDQ cat is pretty basic but has plenty of range.

People who have cruised both sail and power almost universally claim long term cruising costs are roughly the same between power and sail.

Here's a 2009 power cat that claims to have logged 53,000 miles cruising including crossing the pacific three times.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...no-20-3495698/

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

What are you talking about???
I have crewed on many many different boats
Short and Long passages
And for sure most of the “Crews” have been good and competent sailors.
Can’t say the same about owners.
It’s all a question of VETTING
I have learned to VET owners and captains more than they Vet me.
Now there are the folks out there that advertise for crew and
will take anybody as long as they can make a “contribution”
I won’t even get into those.
Look and you will find
Many Many Many more Sailors out there whom are boat-less
looking to crew than there are boat owners.
I’m a former boat owner, sold it because I was tired of the same 500 mile
radius sailing grounds by me. I crew because I never want to do the
same trip twice, tired of boat yoga, like to meet new people
and so on. (Not ruling out another boat though)
Look and you will find lots of good crew with all sorts
of experience
That said
Pray Tell
Why did it take a significant effort for lifelong friends to stay on
good terms with your wife??
It’s a two way street, Vetting is

Cheers
Neil

I do not disagree with anything that you say - to each their own. Personally I would only take on crew that we already know, and that are socially compatible, generally that means existing friends and family and that is the general context of my post. 4 or 6 weeks on a boat with someone is a serious undertaking and not something I would risk based on a resume or a vetting session - again to each their own. I have also crewed for strangers through listing with Crewfinders. It gave me the experience that I signed up for however it is not what I/We want for our own boat. Therefore in the context of wanting to find crew among existing friends and family it is generally quite difficult due to the constraints mentioned in my post. However there are certainly boatloads of competent crew available if you are prepared to sail with strangers.

To answer your last question it took a significant effort because my beautiful redhead artist wife is not the easiest person to get along with when she is stressed in a storm mid ocean. So I pick my crew carefully.
~Alan

[flagatorclearwa]

Wow that's surprising but really intriguing. I did not know sails were consumables and I had no idea how much they cost. I guess the fuel efficiency is because the cat design is so much easier to push than a motoryacht hull, sso you have those tiny diesels? Crazy idea: I see these "demasted" hurricane cats. If that's really the biggest damage on a cat, what would stop one from simply patching up where the mast attached and using it as a long-range powercat? I'm sure there's a reason that's a dumb idea but at first blush it sounds reasonable.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by flagatorclearwa

I guess the fuel efficiency is because the cat design is so much easier to push than a motoryacht hull, sso you have those tiny diesels? Crazy idea: I see these "demasted" hurricane cats. If that's really the biggest damage on a cat, what would stop one from simply patching up where the mast attached and using it as a long-range powercat? I'm sure there's a reason that's a dumb idea but at first blush it sounds reasonable.

It certainly can be done but not all hull shapes may be able to carry the fuel load to give the desired range.

[Jordan-Flomad]

Originally Posted by flagatorclearwa

Can I do it alone? I’m single, and I’ve yet to see a YouTube sailing channel that is one guy doing it alone.

Adventures of An Old Sea Dog is a channel about a very entertaining solo sailor. Wind Hippie is a solo female sailor on a 27' sailboat.

Those may provide some additional inspiration. I'm pretty sure there are more, but those two are the ones I follow.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by flagatorclearwa

Am I too old? Sailing seems to require a whole different level of physicality than power boating. I watch the guy on Project Atticus strap into a harness and hoist himself to the top of the mast to fix the rigging. He makes it look easy, but he’s 28. I’m not sure I can do that.

Being a bit careful with your halyards and such, the needs to go to the top of the mast aren't very frequent. Last season our wind sensor stopped working and I wanted to go aloft to change it, but my dear wife didn't have the strength to winch me up there (I got like 2/3 the way), so we finished the season without a wind sensor.

(My "Whitbread friend" look at me amused, "why didn't you just climb there?")

Of course, if you want to do a solo circumnavigation and be prepared for everything, it's good to figure out a way to get up there alone. Going up to the top of the mast isn't something frequent though. Usually, it's done in a harbor and there you can often find a helping hand.

Am I starting too late? Can I learn enough in a reasonable timeframe to safely cruise the Caribbean? Power boating up and down the ICW and 20 miles out into the gulf is as adventurous as I ever got. BTW I have no aspirations to cross the Atlantic. Just the Caribbean (including the Mexican and Central American coast).

Can I do it alone? I’m single, and I’ve yet to see a YouTube sailing channel that is one guy doing it alone. I can afford a newer boat, so has newer technology made being solo more feasible? If not, how hard is it to find one or more people who would go with me?

Chart technology is great. It's really different from "back in the days" because now you can have your main chartplotter and three backups that all beautifully display a chart of where you are and where you're going. AIS is good as well, because it can provide quite reliable warnings of possibly dangerous other travelllers.

I don't know of any other "technology" that would make much difference for a single-hander.

It's not super difficult to sail a boat, but it's not something you learn in a week, either. The more weather (wind and waves), the more difficult it gets. In difficult conditions, the really simple and easy stuff (like "walking") gets surprisingly challenging, so it's all very relative.

In considering vessel types, I’m pretty sure a cat is what I’d like. First, the wide beam just seems safer and more stable. Second, I like being above the waterline. I hated being below on my Sundancer. I only went down there to sleep. I wouldn’t say I’m claustrophobic, but I like a little space and headroom, and I like to see outside. I like the confidence of having two engines, and assuming it works on a cat like it did on my dual-engine Sundancer, it makes maneuvering in the marina and docking much easier. I also like my creature comforts. I want ample fridge and freezer, an icemaker, and at least AC in the master berth. I can’t sleep in heat. The 38-45 Leopards and Lagoons the charters use look awesome.

The energy equation. I'm sure there is someone who has solved the holy grail of AC without shore power, but it isn't easy. Running AC with a loud diesel generator is one solution, but it's not the holy grail, I think

Is this whole idea silly and should I just take up golf?

NO! It's a great idea. And you will be obviously more happy sailing than doing that idiotic sport of getting the small white ball into the hole.

[JimmyDarci]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Much of what you state you want in your sailboat is budget dependent. So, if you have the budget then go for it. Sailing those large cats by yourself may be challenging.


I encourage you to learn more by asking questions and reading/watching as much as you can about sailboating. I did that for the past year and my wife and I just bought our first monohull last month. A 47 footer no less. We will retire in a few years and do the tropics. Until then, we are works in progress and enjoying the weekends on the boat.


Welcome to CF!

Ditto what Green Wave wrote (above). We are catamaran owners of larger cat -- after years of larger monohulls -- very different boats and takes time to learn and see if you like it.

IMHO - You cannot safely single-hand a boat that large.

My advice: Charter several different catamarans in BVI or some easy spot to focus on catamaran sailing in reality. In BVI, you could try one cat for week one and a second cat for week two. If you charter through Moorings, Sunsail or similar large company, you can purchase a similar (2-4 year old) cat and they should let you take the charter costs off of a purchase. Turns into a fun way to test drive a boat. Even if you do not buy from that group, you will have learned a ton about what you like and don't like in a cat by actually sailing one. Go for it and good luck!

Also, Sailing Ruby Rose or Sailing La Vagabonde or Sailing Nahoa etc... are all great YouTube candy to get you hyped up ... but spend at least six weeks on various cats before making your very important plunge. My wife and I love these channels but joke that the cameras come out usually when something good is occurring or during scheduled maintenance. Very tough even for experienced vloggers to remember to grab the camera when the crap is hitting the fan -- and it will. Get some of that unfilmed time personally under your belt in relatively safe waters like BVI. Worst case scenario is you spent less than 1% more on your dream and you had a blast sailing someone elses boat for the learning session.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Last season our wind sensor stopped working and I wanted to go aloft to change it, but my dear wife didn't have the strength to winch me up there (I got like 2/3 the way), so we finished the season without a wind sensor.

There's a nice free crane at Raisio marina.