New outremer model coming

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

let me get this right

my Lagoon 400, 10.3T light displacement and 96m2 sail ratio = 9.32
Outremer 55 13.5 T light displacement and 127m2 sail ratio = 9.4

So basically the same white sail power.

Outremer is built stronger so can use larger sails more versatile. For example I can carry my gennaker up to 45 app in most conditions, Outremer will go much closer. It can also carry mast top spi in light winds.

Outremer has longer waterline which will make it 17.2% faster.

It also has slimmer hulls that will add another say 5 %.

Daggerboards add say another 3%

Overall adds up to 23.5% faster

Carrying capacity the same, i guess.

Cost is 4 x

Sure has better looks.

Our average speed seem to be around 6.5kn so he will have 8 kn. Extra 1.5kn speed & better looks costs 1.1m EUR, HUH !!!



If I had money, would buy it of course

Just looked at the website Sail Areas : Main 104 sq m Genoa 68 sq m - this might change your comparatives. (Even the blade jib is 48 sq m)

https://catamaran-outremer.com/fr/outremer-55-en/

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

where did you get 172 ? I got 127 from a youtube video 82 main and 45 jib.

If i include my gennaker get 137m2.
SA/D=137*10.76/((10300*2.2/64)^(2/3))=29.39

Did not know the formula is that complex, assumed sail area/weight.

thanks for the correction. Still not much difference.

Need to compare the same sail plans
O55
MAINSAIL : 104 m²
GENOA : 68 m²
SELFTACKING JIB : 48 m²
GENNAKER : 140 m²

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

15ft longer. Not comparable at all, maybe same living space inside, but anything else....

15 feet gives you extra 17% of extra speed. Speed proportional to square root of length.

There is no magic. Simple physics where is my expertise.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Need to compare the same sail plans
O55
MAINSAIL : 104 m²
GENOA : 68 m²
SELFTACKING JIB : 48 m²
GENNAKER : 140 m²

fair enough my source was something on youtube that was wrong.

That increases average a bit but one should expect long term average in low 8-ts. which is very nice. 5 day passage becomes 4 days.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

fair enough my source was something on youtube that was wrong.

That increases average a bit but one should expect long term average in low 8-ts. which is very nice. 5 day passage becomes 4 days.

thinking again, O 55 can carry top head spi that lagoon cant. This makes large difference in sub 15kn app winds.

Boat is made stronger, and can carry more sails efficiently than lagoon as well.

So , i think differential would be closer to 40% Meaning 6.5kn average for L 400 meaning O 55 we talk 9 kn leisurely sailed

one day....

[CatNewBee]

True, maybe.
BUT with a Lagoon 400 you have more fun on the water sailing.

Let's say both boats go from A to B, assuming 36nm away, L400 in 6kn, O55 in 9kn, as a Lagoon Captain you enjoy 6 hours of sailing before arriving, the Otremar crew only 4 hours, and they pay 3 times for it, so more money for less.

At anchor, the space is the same.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

True, maybe.
BUT with a Lagoon 400 you have more fun on the water sailing.

Let's say both boats go from A to B, assuming 36nm away, L400 in 6kn, O55 in 9kn, as a Lagoon Captain you enjoy 6 hours of sailing before arriving, the Otremar crew only 4 hours, and they pay 3 times for it, so more money for less.

At anchor, the space is the same.

Yeah but sailing faster is way more fun.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

15 feet gives you extra 17% of extra speed. Speed proportional to square root of length.



There is no magic. Simple physics where is my expertise.

That’s not correct for hulls less than 12:1 length to beam ratio (which the Outremer hulls are). For narrow hulls the hull speed formula does not apply as there is minimal drag caused by climbing the almost non-existent bow wave.

There is way more than 17% speed increase due to the length.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by fxykty

That’s not correct for hulls less than 12:1 length to beam ratio (which the Outremer hulls are). For narrow hulls the hull speed formula does not apply as there is minimal drag caused by climbing the almost non-existent bow wave.

There is way more than 17% speed increase due to the length.

The guy just did rough numbers with rough figures, main point is that the basic platform is the same in accommodation and carrying capacity , how much extra are you prepared to pay for speed/prestige and its associated disadvantages when you spend 90% of the time on the hook or at the dock.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

The guy just did rough numbers with rough figures, main point is that the basic platform is the same in accommodation and carrying capacity , how much extra are you prepared to pay for speed/prestige and its associated disadvantages when you spend 90% of the time on the hook or at the dock.

What are the associated disadvantages are of more speed? Regardless, it’s more fun to be able to sail well in more conditions, regardless of the ratio of time spent sailing vs anchored. And arguably safer.

What’s prestige got to do with it? That price for a 55 foot boat is not out of line of many other premium makes, catamaran and monohull. If you got the $$$ you can play. If not, make whatever adjustments you need to and be happy.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

The guy just did rough numbers with rough figures, main point is that the basic platform is the same in accommodation and carrying capacity , how much extra are you prepared to pay for speed/prestige and its associated disadvantages when you spend 90% of the time on the hook or at the dock.

If I spend 90% of the time on the hook or at a dock I damn well want a boat that sails well for the other 10% of the time.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by smj

If I spend 90% of the time on the hook or at a dock I damn well want a boat that sails well for the other 10% of the time.

it is personal choice. If I had to choose between 10 years enjoying O 55 starting at 65 (because had to make that extra cash for buy and maint) and extra 10 years with L 400 - starting at 55, means retire 10 years earlier, i choose L 400.

If already had money or make enough while sailing, would go O 55, no questions asked.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

it is personal choice. If I had to choose between 10 years enjoying O 55 starting at 65 (because had to make that extra cash for buy and maint) and extra 10 years with L 400 - starting at 55, means retire 10 years earlier, i choose L 400.

If already had money or make enough while sailing, would go O 55, no questions asked.

But you could have bought an old 1999 model outremer instead of your L400.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by smj

If I spend 90% of the time on the hook or at a dock I damn well want a boat that sails well for the other 10% of the time.

Well said!

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

But you could have bought an old 1999 model outremer instead of your L400.

and file for divorce. no thanks. We looked at these and is was firm NO after 25 seconds of inspection from my wife.

Only way for me to get this type of boat and not rock the boat is to fork 1.5m eur for new O 55. Nothing less will do. So, i am very happy with L 400. It sails really well for 40 footer as well