Opinion choice between two cats

[SvenB]

Hi Cruisers,

My wive and I have decided to buy a boat and become liveaboards. After a bareboat charter of 6 weeks we fell in love with the life on sea. The idea is to stay in a home port for 1 year to get used to the boat and add some skills and than start to sail the world and cross oceans. We have been searching a cat for the last months and found ourselves now in the luxury to even have a choice.

We have two production catamarans of 46 feet.
Same brand and version, same build year, same price. Both cats privately owned and never chartered.
The differences are the following:

CAT1:
Engines volvo 75HP with 400 hours
Extra sails: code 0
Owner version which means open space (3 berths)

CAT2:
Engines volvo 60HP with 900 hours
Extra sails: code 0 and code D
Charter version with one room accessible from aft which means more storage (4 berths)

Our question for you cat liveaboards:
Which one would you opt and why?

Thx for the feedback in advance

[dhenline]

I think you are being way to cryptic in your question. You mention which boats they are and NOT just the most rudimentary basics you have put out there
dwh

[chrisr]

if your experience level is a 6 week charter then the answer is :

neither of them

cheers,

[Kinkircating]

Yeah, I’d vote for neither. You really need to define your mission before knowing what boat would be the best fit. Do you like to sail, or are you the type to just motor for 2-3 days because your boat won’t sail to windward? Are you going to hop from marina to marina or cross oceans…for 2 years or for 10?

Get a passage or two under your belt in different types of cats, hell even a monohull to see what characteristics are important to you. Good luck!

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by SvenB

Hi Cruisers,



My wive and I have decided to buy a boat and become liveaboards. After a bareboat charter of 6 weeks we fell in love with the life on sea. The idea is to stay in a home port for 1 year to get used to the boat and add some skills and than start to sail the world and cross oceans. We have been searching a cat for the last months and found ourselves now in the luxury to even have a choice.



We have two production catamarans of 46 feet.

Same brand and version, same build year, same price. Both cats privately owned and never chartered.

The differences are the following:



CAT1:

Engines volvo 75HP with 400 hours

Extra sails: code 0

Owner version which means open space (3 berths)



CAT2:

Engines volvo 60HP with 900 hours

Extra sails: code 0 and code D

Charter version with one room accessible from aft which means more storage (4 berths)



Our question for you cat liveaboards:

Which one would you opt and why?



Thx for the feedback in advance

No idea of the sailing capabilities of the cats you are referring to, so hard to recommend anything. Since you don’t mention it, is it safe to assume that the systems and equipment fit out are the same on both boats?

In general terms here are some guidelines:
- higher engine power is better, especially if the cat doesn’t sail well
- owner version is recommended for long term live aboard, usually due to separate primary shower stall and other features of the owner’s hull. Note that a desk area or couch in the owner’s hull are not positive features, just a waste of space
- white sails and code 0 take care of upwind and reaching sailing angles. A code D, if cut really full, may be useful for downwind sailing. A small positive for the 4-cabin boat
- some consider the charter layout to be superior for resale, as many people buy boats just like houses, preferring more bedrooms. Others prefer the owner’s version as they are more rare. The potential resale difference is probably a wash.
- are there more heads on the charter version? If so, the extra head is wasted space for a live aboard
- does the owner’s version have reasonable storage options, to make up for the lack of the storage potential of the fourth bedroom?

[Jim Cate]

Can't help with the overall decision but FWIW, 2x75 hp (that's 150 hp total) is pretty silly in even a heavy 46 foot sailing cat. Way overpowered IMO, so not an advantage in the selection.

Jim

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Can't help with the overall decision but FWIW, 2x75 hp (that's 150 hp total) is pretty silly in even a heavy 46 foot sailing cat. Way overpowered IMO, so not an advantage in the selection.

Jim

Lagoon 46 comes with 57hp standard and I’m sure they offer a larger engine as an option, so 75hp in the OP’s cat choice is not outrageously large. Though it does imply that the sailing characteristics aren’t great of that model. Another way to tell is the fuel tankage volume - larger means the designers expect the boat to motor more.

However note that long distance cruisers will often run on just one engine, so the extra power of a larger engine can be helpful. In our case, with relatively small engines, at the same rpm we run about 1.5kts slower on one engine than with two. If we had larger engines the difference in speed would likely be less.

[SvenB]

Thx for the usefull answers.

To reply on some questions:
- Both boats are exactly the same and equipped the same, expect one is owner on one is not.
- we've sailed more than that and have done deliveries in the past.
- we want to sail as much as possible, motor as less as possible, cross oceans and live on anchorages as often as possible

As mentioned, we've done our research and this would be the best boat for our budget. The question is not about the type or brand of boat.
The actual question is only about the major differences between the two boats, what would be more preferable,...

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by SvenB

Thx for the usefull answers.

To reply on some questions:
- Both boats are exactly the same and equipped the same, expect one is owner on one is not.
- we've sailed more than that and have done deliveries in the past.
- we want to sail as much as possible, motor as less as possible, cross oceans and live on anchorages as often as possible

As mentioned, we've done our research and this would be the best boat for our budget. The question is not about the type or brand of boat.
The actual question is only about the major differences between the two boats, what would be more preferable,...

I think the material difference between those boats is in the layout, and that seems to be almost all personal preference. The engines both seem fit for purpose, with relatively low hours. If you really want another sail, it is easily bought at a fraction of what I'm guessing is the purchase price.

If I was trying to choose between such similar boats, I think I might be spending more time trying to assess how well the PO looked after the boats. Are they well maintained? Have any changes/modifications been one professionally? Not sure how old they are so not sure how important this is.

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by SvenB

Thx for the usefull answers.

To reply on some questions:
- Both boats are exactly the same and equipped the same, expect one is owner on one is not.
- we've sailed more than that and have done deliveries in the past.
- we want to sail as much as possible, motor as less as possible, cross oceans and live on anchorages as often as possible

As mentioned, we've done our research and this would be the best boat for our budget. The question is not about the type or brand of boat.
The actual question is only about the major differences between the two boats, what would be more preferable,...

Okay great to hear that you've got plenty of experience and have done your homework on all the available options, and this is the boat type for you.

Are you saying both boats have:
-identical battery type and capacity
-sail inventory/condition/age match one another
-same type and amount of solar
-both boats have the same cooking gear (gas/induction)
-identical electronics packages/autopilot/instrumentation
-identical refrigeration and freezer capacity
-both come with identical dinghies and engines
-overall condition of the boats are similar from a maintenance standpoint
-winches are the same (electric/manual)
-cockpit enclosures identical
-wifi/communications/satellite set ups are the same

There are a whole bunch of variables that could make one boat a much better deal than the other. But if you are okay with motor sailing a lot more, go with the owners version. Just curious which catamarans that sail a bit better you've had the chance to get some miles on? I had thought for sure the boat for us was a FP Saona 47, until we sailed different boats.

[SV Confianza]

Well, while I disagree that a production boat will handle this requirement: "we want to *sail as much as possible, motor as less as possible," — we find that we motor or motor sail as much as 40% of the time — I'll answer your question anyway =).

I would go with the owner version. Yes, the engines on that one are probably overkill, which means more maintenance and expense to maintain. But the livability of the owners version (nicer bedroom and bathroom) will be well worth it. You'll have plenty of storage on that size boat.

[SvenB]

Thx again for the helpfull replies.

Of course there are some small other differences but it is easy to add some solar or a battery,.. but the boats are very comparable. It's not so easy to upgrade engines or change a charter to an owner.

We have sailed nautitech 44 open, fp astrea and saona, leopard 48 and outremer 45.
We would certainly prefer an outremer 52 or an HH or even a gunboat over a prodcat, but unfortunately they do not accept peanuts. A bigger performance cat would be much better but our wallet just isn't so big at the moment :-). We have chosen for a younger prodcat instead.

[SV Confianza]

Originally Posted by SvenB

Thx again for the helpfull replies.

Of course there are some small other differences but it is easy to add some solar or a battery,.. but the boats are very comparable. It's not so easy to upgrade engines or change a charter to an owner.

We have sailed nautitech 44 open, fp astrea and saona, leopard 48 and outremer 45.
We would certainly prefer an outremer 52 or an HH or even a gunboat over a prodcat, but unfortunately they do not accept peanuts. A bigger performance cat would be much better but our wallet just isn't so big at the moment :-). We have chosen for a younger prodcat instead.

I'm with you. I'd rather be living aboard and cruising on our fat and slow Privilege than not cruising at all!

Then at least you can still have fun watching all the videos of those $2mil performance cats that scream around at 15+kts =). Just me?

But, if you want to go completely the other direction, this guy is for sale: https://www.multihullcompany.com/boa...lli-melvin-50/ for only 649k

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by SvenB

Thx again for the helpfull replies.

Of course there are some small other differences but it is easy to add some solar or a battery,.. but the boats are very comparable. It's not so easy to upgrade engines or change a charter to an owner.

We have sailed nautitech 44 open, fp astrea and saona, leopard 48 and outremer 45.
We would certainly prefer an outremer 52 or an HH or even a gunboat over a prodcat, but unfortunately they do not accept peanuts. A bigger performance cat would be much better but our wallet just isn't so big at the moment :-). We have chosen for a younger prodcat instead.

If you truly want to sail, choose an older cat that was designed to sail in all conditions and all wind angles. Part of the joy of cruising is being able to sail happily whenever there’s a breeze. No need to motor to windward and when the breeze is below 15kts. The other benefit of a faster sailing boat is the ability to make longer distances while day sailing - 9kts vs 6kts is a lot of miles over ten hours.

But if you are determined to buy youth, go for it with either of the boats you’re looking at. The owner’s version will probably be a more comfortable choice for living aboard.

[Tin Tin]

The 75HP engines are probably the turbocharged version of the other. I would avoid turbochargers as they are just another maintenance headache when they fail and are expensive.