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Old 05-09-2018, 17:05   #196
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teecomp View Post
I have owned many automobiles that have never had those percentages to maintain. I would be homeless today if my house cost 10% of its value to keep up. I know mechanical things wear and break down. What is it about yachts that cause this much upkeep? Can someone give some examples of what is typical to have to be fixed in an average year aboard? Thanks.
The reality is cars and houses are not very good analogues for boats when it comes to maintenance. Maybe if you take a cheaply built 60 year old house and a 35 year old car that you have to keep running in a jungle with the nearest hardware store/mechanic a days drive away over dirt roads as your parallels, you'll come closer.

Here are some of the common maintenance items to be considered for boats that are extensively cruised. I've given rough time frames, but some will do these much more often and some a lot less. I am mainly just trying to give you an idea of the sorts of things to be considered, based on 20 years of owning boats and 4 years of full time cruising on a 20 year old, 48' catamaran.

Hull:
- cleaning
- bottom painting (every year to 2 years)
- zinc replacement (every year)
- through hulls (greasing every year or so, replacing/overhauling every 15?)
- rudder bearings (replacing/overhauling every 15 years?)
- transducers (cleaning, replacing every 10 years?)

Deck & Topsides:
- cleaning
- painting (initial gelcoat lasts a long time, then repaint every 10 to 15?)
- window seals (eventually wear out and leak - gaskets, rebedding?)
- perspex windows - crazing ... replace every 15 to 20 years
- windlass - when the seals eventually die the motor gets wet and lots of problems
- windlass gypsy - eventually wears and chain starts slipping
- anchor rode - wears, needs replacement eventually
- anchor chain - galvanising dies eventually

Rigging:
- inspect often
- standing rigging (replace every 10 to 15 yrs)
- running rigging (at least as often as standing rigging if not much more often)
- blocks, clutches, ... (annual cleaning and maintenance)
- winches (dissassemble and grease every couple of years if not more often)
- sails - (replace every 5 to 10 years - depends a lot on type and use)
- furlers - bearings need cleaning and lubricating - eventually need replacing

Electronics:
- replace/upgrade every 5 to 10+ years
- repair/clean/grease electrical connectors constantly

Steering:
- depends on type - everything that moves needs lubraction/cleaning - cables/push-rods/gears/hydraulics

Galley:
- propane system needs cleaning and checking often - vented lockers which you must have lead to rusting and early death of regulators & solenoids
- refrigeration - compressors eventually die (life depends on type and setup)
- electric pumps - need filters cleaning, pressure switches seem to only last 5 years or so, if leak everything gets wet and rusts
- plumbing - normal maintenance of valves, washers, seats etc, but in a salt water environment

Engines + drivetrain:
- saildrives - change oil in lower unit (every couple of years)
- propellers - folding/feathering need greasing & cleaning annually + zincs
- zincs - every year on cooling system
- oil changes - every 50 to 100+ hours
- filter changes
- belts - alternator belts wear and die, particularly if oversized alternator fitted
- water pump impellers - check every year, replace??
- the engines have a hard life - replace every 20+ years

Heads:
- depends on type - clean and rebuild pumps frequently
- pipes and tanks build deposits - clean often, replace 10 to 15 years
- valves need greasing and cleaning regularly
- vents & vent filters - block, need cleaning & replacing

I'm sure I've forgotten whole systems with this list, and that other's will disagree significantly with some of the items I've put down. The point is that there are a lot of them and they add up.

One of the key things, is that you end up with enough systems that need major work every 10 to 15 years, that every year or two you have to deal with one of them which is expensive in time and money.

Mark.
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Old 05-09-2018, 21:08   #197
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
The reality is cars and houses are not very good analogues for boats when it comes to maintenance. Maybe if you take a cheaply built 60 year old house and a 35 year old car that you have to keep running in a jungle with the nearest hardware store/mechanic a days drive away over dirt roads as your parallels, you'll come closer.

Here are some of the common maintenance items to be considered for boats that are extensively cruised. I've given rough time frames, but some will do these much more often and some a lot less. I am mainly just trying to give you an idea of the sorts of things to be considered, based on 20 years of owning boats and 4 years of full time cruising on a 20 year old, 48' catamaran.

Hull:
- cleaning
- bottom painting (every year to 2 years)
- zinc replacement (every year)
- through hulls (greasing every year or so, replacing/overhauling every 15?)
- rudder bearings (replacing/overhauling every 15 years?)
- transducers (cleaning, replacing every 10 years?)

Deck & Topsides:
- cleaning
- painting (initial gelcoat lasts a long time, then repaint every 10 to 15?)
- window seals (eventually wear out and leak - gaskets, rebedding?)
- perspex windows - crazing ... replace every 15 to 20 years
- windlass - when the seals eventually die the motor gets wet and lots of problems
- windlass gypsy - eventually wears and chain starts slipping
- anchor rode - wears, needs replacement eventually
- anchor chain - galvanising dies eventually

Rigging:
- inspect often
- standing rigging (replace every 10 to 15 yrs)
- running rigging (at least as often as standing rigging if not much more often)
- blocks, clutches, ... (annual cleaning and maintenance)
- winches (dissassemble and grease every couple of years if not more often)
- sails - (replace every 5 to 10 years - depends a lot on type and use)
- furlers - bearings need cleaning and lubricating - eventually need replacing

Electronics:
- replace/upgrade every 5 to 10+ years
- repair/clean/grease electrical connectors constantly

Steering:
- depends on type - everything that moves needs lubraction/cleaning - cables/push-rods/gears/hydraulics

Galley:
- propane system needs cleaning and checking often - vented lockers which you must have lead to rusting and early death of regulators & solenoids
- refrigeration - compressors eventually die (life depends on type and setup)
- electric pumps - need filters cleaning, pressure switches seem to only last 5 years or so, if leak everything gets wet and rusts
- plumbing - normal maintenance of valves, washers, seats etc, but in a salt water environment

Engines + drivetrain:
- saildrives - change oil in lower unit (every couple of years)
- propellers - folding/feathering need greasing & cleaning annually + zincs
- zincs - every year on cooling system
- oil changes - every 50 to 100+ hours
- filter changes
- belts - alternator belts wear and die, particularly if oversized alternator fitted
- water pump impellers - check every year, replace??
- the engines have a hard life - replace every 20+ years

Heads:
- depends on type - clean and rebuild pumps frequently
- pipes and tanks build deposits - clean often, replace 10 to 15 years
- valves need greasing and cleaning regularly
- vents & vent filters - block, need cleaning & replacing

I'm sure I've forgotten whole systems with this list, and that other's will disagree significantly with some of the items I've put down. The point is that there are a lot of them and they add up.

One of the key things, is that you end up with enough systems that need major work every 10 to 15 years, that every year or two you have to deal with one of them which is expensive in time and money.

Mark.
Thanks for writing this up. This is great info to know even just looking at boats, to find out what has been done already based on their age.

Saved
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Old 05-09-2018, 22:40   #198
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by FEC View Post
Hello everyone, my wife and I were in the same boat, haha, as KingGuppy, Exactly the same. However we did heed the advice of this board when I thought I wanted a 53' leaky teaky, and we were shown the light, so yes, back then and even now, we are better off having listened to these salty sailors. They really say things you do not want to hear but you should listen somewhat. I have sailed with cruisers and raced with racers here in LOng Beach, CA and Redondo Beach. My wife and I love it and hope to get sailing soon on a boat of our own.


The discussion about the financials and the so called "markets" are what kept me reading this entire post. I had the same idea us you KingG, but now I have a different idea and would like some feedback from the board.


I believe that when this fully rigged bull market corrects to fair value, there will be some great deals to be had on boats of all sizes and types. I have hedged my net worth with enough physical AU and AG for the long haul to make a boat sit below the waterline and have some FRN's for everything else.



What do you savvy financial guys think about boat owners in the near future, when this all corrects to fair market value, wanting or actually needing to off-load these toys for whatever price they can get? Is this scenario possible?



I too wanted a loan for a boat and I was trying to get it quick because interest rates were and still are going up but then I thought, hey why not wait till people cannot afford their toys anymore and maybe I can trade some AG or AU for it? Especially if PM's correct to fair value [emoji3]!!



Thoughts?




ALso, I agree with everyone that although a large boat is perhaps desirable, it's all the unknown costs that will get you, so now we are looking at smaller so we can make our adventure money last a long time . My wife and I started looking for boats a year and a half ago and I wonder to this day, imagine only paying boat loan, slip fees and insurance, how much money wasted since then. It's a tricky thing to do in my opinion and I really admire those people who buy a boat, take a couple months getting it ready and then cast the dock lines and off they go for years. Takes a lot of cojones to do that but you use your money wisely instead of giving it away to marinas and Ins. companies. Good luck KingG, we'll need some too.
Personally I think the world will go on sale, this will most likely include yachts. When? I have know idea.

We have had a credit driven boom like never before, it takes more and more credit to keep it going, yet we are getting less and less growth from more and more debt. My opinions are well founded and backed by data, it's hard to ignore the numbers. Based on the above I've put myself in a debt free position and hedge the same way you do.

It costs me money to take this conservative (contrarian) approach BUT I believe it's about "getting the return of your money more than getting a return on my money", I don't know when the music will stop, I grabbed a chair early.

I figure debt free cruising and living simply is a decent plan while watching from the sidelines. I've never been a speculator, didn't earn my money that way BUT speculating is the only game in town now, the word "Investing" is regularly confused with Speculating.

I follow some of the "FIRE" blogs. I find their confidence interesting. That age bracket have known nothing but massive monetary loosening in their adult life's and assume it's normal. History says it's not.

If they took the time to understand how "this monetary experiment" worked and how its distorted fundamentals, thus markets, I'm not sure they'd be so confident.

For the record, I'm not doom and gloom, retired quite young and enjoy my life BUT I'm more interested in reality than feel good fantasy. Most don't understand how they've made their money, just smarter than previous generations I guess...... don't think so.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:07   #199
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
Personally I think the world will go on sale, this will most likely include yachts. When? I have know idea.

We have had a credit driven boom like never before, it takes more and more credit to keep it going, yet we are getting less and less growth from more and more debt. My opinions are well founded and backed by data, it's hard to ignore the numbers. Based on the above I've put myself in a debt free position and hedge the same way you do.

It costs me money to take this conservative (contrarian) approach BUT I believe it's about "getting the return of your money more than getting a return on my money", I don't know when the music will stop, I grabbed a chair early.

I figure debt free cruising and living simply is a decent plan while watching from the sidelines. I've never been a speculator, didn't earn my money that way BUT speculating is the only game in town now, the word "Investing" is regularly confused with Speculating.

I follow some of the "FIRE" blogs. I find their confidence interesting. That age bracket have known nothing but massive monetary loosening in their adult life's and assume it's normal. History says it's not.

If they took the time to understand how "this monetary experiment" worked and how its distorted fundamentals, thus markets, I'm not sure they'd be so confident.

For the record, I'm not doom and gloom, retired quite young and enjoy my life BUT I'm more interested in reality than feel good fantasy. Most don't understand how they've made their money, just smarter than previous generations I guess...... don't think so.
+1 on most aspects

except two things
A) AU +AG should also not be the primary investment vehicles. Their intrinsic value is pretty low, everything else is just speculation, and market manipulation by the big players. Plus it has been illegal to own AG before in many countries: US, UK, FR, DE, ...
I can see this happening again once the pyramid scheme of "AG-backed" investment tools collapses.

B) Yachts in general won't take a hit similar to other toys. Look back into 2008/2009: New sailing yacht sales dropped, and one could make good deals on new builds. Gas guzzling powerboats would not sell at all on the used market. But the used sailing yacht market was reasonable stable during the GFC (just from looking from the sidelines back then).
If all goes into the toilet one can still live on a oat, but not in a sportscar.
Living on a simple boat on the hook, being DIY capable and selfsufficient, without significant ties to land, can be very cheap.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:51   #200
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Having read through all of the posts, it now appears that we’ve been doing everything wrong over the past eight years of ACTUAL cruising, the first two on our Hunter 450, then the next six on Oysters in the Med.

According to the majority...

1. Wrong location for things to do
2. Wrong size boat
3. Wrong financial plan
4. Wrong cost estimates
5. Wrong location to keep costs down
6. Wrong location for weather

So... if the OP Guppy would like some advice on how to do everything wrong going into season nine, please send me a pm anytime.
Hahaha... Best reply ever. Emphasis is on ACTUAL crusing. Well said
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:33   #201
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_morwood View Post
The reality is cars and houses are not very good analogues for boats when it comes to maintenance. Maybe if you take a cheaply built 60 year old house and a 35 year old car that you have to keep running in a jungle with the nearest hardware store/mechanic a days drive away over dirt roads as your parallels, you'll come closer.

Here are some of the common maintenance items to be considered for boats that are extensively cruised. I've given rough time frames, but some will do these much more often and some a lot less. I am mainly just trying to give you an idea of the sorts of things to be considered, based on 20 years of owning boats and 4 years of full time cruising on a 20 year old, 48' catamaran.

Mark.
Mark's list is a really good list of a lot of things, and I see that Guppy has made a note of "thanks" for the list.

One thing that sort of bothers me is the "percent" concept. A new main on a high end 40' boat is the same cost as a new main on a worn out boat. But the worn out boat probably needs it more/sooner! So one could make an argument that as the price of the boat goes down, the maintenance cost goes up.

But you can argue the other way, too. If you have a 40 boat boat you picked up for $40K, you might well be OK with old electronics, 20 year old mildewed and stained main with no shape left, a bad scar leftover from a PO's bad landing, etc. If you have a $300K boat, none of those things suddenly become critical -- but they "sting" more. You might well be replacing the sails at the 5-7 year range, rather than "just keep going" like you would with an old boat (who want's to spend $10K for a new set of sails on a boat that's only worth $40K -- but that same $10K makes a lot of sense on a boat that's worth $300K). The same applies to a paint job, or new electronics, etc.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:58   #202
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

For those monohull sailors that keep preaching to the OP that HE MUST start out on a monohull to be a good sailor, even though he knows he wants a Cat, a quote from Catamarans: The Complete Guide For Cruising Sailors written by Gregor Tarjan.

"While experienced monohull sailors have a firm foundation in basic techniques they need to get over the mindset of comparing multihull sailing to sailing one-hulled ballasted boats. Once they can do that the process is easy. The boat you learn on tends to become your benchmark for what sailing is all about......."

In other words the OP doesn't need to buy a dinghy, then a small keel boat and graduate to a Cat. He can just as easily buy the Cat he and his wife would like to cruise on, learn on that and be a proficient sailor.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:49   #203
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellBack89 View Post
For those monohull sailors that keep preaching to the OP that HE MUST start out on a monohull to be a good sailor, even though he knows he wants a Cat, a quote from Catamarans: The Complete Guide For Cruising Sailors written by Gregor Tarjan.

"While experienced monohull sailors have a firm foundation in basic techniques they need to get over the mindset of comparing multihull sailing to sailing one-hulled ballasted boats. Once they can do that the process is easy. The boat you learn on tends to become your benchmark for what sailing is all about......."

In other words the OP doesn't need to buy a dinghy, then a small keel boat and graduate to a Cat. He can just as easily buy the Cat he and his wife would like to cruise on, learn on that and be a proficient sailor.
Appreciate that quote. Figure its best to learn on what I actually want to sail.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:56   #204
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

To the O.P.: Please don't take any of the following personally:

The dream: Buy a "condomaran" sail around the world with total freedom and pay for it by being YouTube stars. THIS IS AS CLICHE AND NAIVE AS IT GETS!

Why sailing: Freedom. I don't think you realize how being a slave to your $300,000 "investment" is not going to amount to freedom. Think dockage, repairs, hurricane season and political climate (security)

Experience: 10 cruises (we are talking cruise ships here), one motorboat ride, watching YouTube, and a sailing simulator (video game). And a plan to ultimately take sailing classes next year.

You are already picking out a boat name? Kind of putting "the cart before the horse"

Let me explain that owning a large catamaran is usually a rich people endeavor. Sure, some of us do it "on the fringe" but mostly at least had some idea of what we were getting into.

My advice: 1. Before you go any further you need to go out on the ocean in any sailboat (preferably a catamaran since that is your dream) on a "normal" day (normal meaning 15-20 knot tradewinds). I am not saying that you won't like it, but it will be an eye opener. 2. I am not knocking sailing courses although I have never taken one. You need "real world" experience. Find out when "race night" is at the local yacht club and show up an hour before the race and ask around. You will get a position known as "rail meat". Do this every week, this is the fast track to learning sailing skills.

I hope that no one gives me a hard time for saying these things. These guys asked for a reality check.
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Old 06-09-2018, 13:03   #205
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
He can just as easily buy the Cat he and his wife would like to cruise on, learn on that and be a proficient sailor
You might want look at the number of catamaran owners telling him that. I own a multihull and I believe it's better to learn on a small monohull. I suggested it on the first or second page.

The reason is simple. You will miss many of the nuances of sailing by learning on a large cat. For example, on a light keel boat, if you are hit by a strong gust you will get knocked down. Once you learn that lesson, you will, in the future, be scanning the water looking for gusts and adjust the sails and prepare before they hit. In addition, on a small keel boat, you will learn to reef early.

These things surely can be discovered on a multihull, but the effects on the boat aren't as dramatic and I think would take longer to master.
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Old 06-09-2018, 13:09   #206
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGuppy View Post
Thanks for writing this up. This is great info to know even just looking at boats, to find out what has been done already based on their age.

Saved
Keep in mind, this why cheaper and simpler are better for the average person who wants to diy.
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Old 06-09-2018, 13:48   #207
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

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Originally Posted by Davy J View Post
You might want look at the number of catamaran owners telling him that. I own a multihull and I believe it's better to learn on a small monohull. I suggested it on the first or second page.

The reason is simple. You will miss many of the nuances of sailing by learning on a large cat. For example, on a light keel boat, if you are hit by a strong gust you will get knocked down. Once you learn that lesson, you will, in the future, be scanning the water looking for gusts and adjust the sails and prepare before they hit. In addition, on a small keel boat, you will learn to reef early.

These things surely can be discovered on a multihull, but the effects on the boat aren't as dramatic and I think would take longer to master.
That wasn't just my suggestion but the suggestion of a multihull designer and owner of Aeroyacht. Someone who's sailed both monohulls and multihulls to total over 80,000 nautical miles. Everyone is preaching to take a professionals word, we'll I'm providing a professionals word.

To your point the author discusses this point "One of the first things you notice is the lack of heeling on a cruising cat. There's no need for constantly bracing yourself or your gear at unnatural angles. Sailing is more comfortable and less tiring which translates into greater enjoyment and safer operating conditions. Searching for a downside to level sailing, I'd say there's a lack of feedback that heeling provides the helmsman. With no appreciable heel and a reduced tendency for weather or lee helm on a cat, it's more difficult to tell when it's time to reduce sail. One must rely on boat speed and boat motion relative to the seas. Multihulls have no real ability to spill a gust of wind by heeling; they typically translate excess wind energy into acceleration, which demands slight adaptation. Rapid acceleration is most noticeable on light displacement multihulls with high-performance rigs."


So in my opinion, your argument falls short since neither sail the same in equal conditions. Spending time on the boat you're going to cruise on and learning those nuances is more important than learning the nuances of a keel boat being knocked down in a gust of wind. Cats, as you know don't get knocked down they accelerate. So realizing this early and responding by reefing early is what's important. The OP will only learn this by sailing and learning on his preferred boat. I think it's best to agree to disagree on this.
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Old 06-09-2018, 13:59   #208
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

I'm not actually disagreeing with you, I think you can easily learn on a cat. But I sailed monohulls for over ten years and now have over four yours on my catamaran. I still think you will learn more about "sailing" on a small monohull.
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Old 06-09-2018, 14:06   #209
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy J View Post
I'm not actually disagreeing with you, I think you can easily learn on a cat. But I sailed monohulls for over ten years and now have over four yours on my catamaran. I still think you will learn more about "sailing" on a small monohull.

Right on! BTW off subject the admiral and I miss Tampa and the beautiful water of the gulf. We relocated to Galveston and there isn't anything nice about this water. Hoping to get back to FL once our Freshman graduates and my wife calls it a day in the rat race of healthcare. Enjoy your Cat!
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Old 06-09-2018, 14:24   #210
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Re: Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
To the O.P.: Please don't take any of the following personally:

The dream: Buy a "condomaran" sail around the world with total freedom and pay for it by being YouTube stars. THIS IS AS CLICHE AND NAIVE AS IT GETS!

Why sailing: Freedom. I don't think you realize how being a slave to your $300,000 "investment" is not going to amount to freedom. Think dockage, repairs, hurricane season and political climate (security)

Experience: 10 cruises (we are talking cruise ships here), one motorboat ride, watching YouTube, and a sailing simulator (video game). And a plan to ultimately take sailing classes next year.

You are already picking out a boat name? Kind of putting "the cart before the horse"

Let me explain that owning a large catamaran is usually a rich people endeavor. Sure, some of us do it "on the fringe" but mostly at least had some idea of what we were getting into.

My advice: 1. Before you go any further you need to go out on the ocean in any sailboat (preferably a catamaran since that is your dream) on a "normal" day (normal meaning 15-20 knot tradewinds). I am not saying that you won't like it, but it will be an eye opener. 2. I am not knocking sailing courses although I have never taken one. You need "real world" experience. Find out when "race night" is at the local yacht club and show up an hour before the race and ask around. You will get a position known as "rail meat". Do this every week, this is the fast track to learning sailing skills.

I hope that no one gives me a hard time for saying these things. These guys asked for a reality check.
Looks like you might of read the first post and nothing else. The YouTube was because we already own 100% of the equipment required. It would be a great use of our freetime if there was any to give it a try. We run a digital marketing company that would be the financial means to travel.

Yeah, we're looking at different options about going out on a cat as soon as possible. This weekend we'll be going to the Tampa boat show to have a look around, and will be doing a charter in the near future.

We've had several people on this forum offer for us to go out for a few nights on their cat, so we may end up taking one of those offers.

Great people on here.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellBack89 View Post
That wasn't just my suggestion but the suggestion of a multihull designer and owner of Aeroyacht. Someone who's sailed both monohulls and multihulls to total over 80,000 nautical miles. Everyone is preaching to take a professionals word, we'll I'm providing a professionals word.

To your point the author discusses this point "One of the first things you notice is the lack of heeling on a cruising cat. There's no need for constantly bracing yourself or your gear at unnatural angles. Sailing is more comfortable and less tiring which translates into greater enjoyment and safer operating conditions. Searching for a downside to level sailing, I'd say there's a lack of feedback that heeling provides the helmsman. With no appreciable heel and a reduced tendency for weather or lee helm on a cat, it's more difficult to tell when it's time to reduce sail. One must rely on boat speed and boat motion relative to the seas. Multihulls have no real ability to spill a gust of wind by heeling; they typically translate excess wind energy into acceleration, which demands slight adaptation. Rapid acceleration is most noticeable on light displacement multihulls with high-performance rigs."


So in my opinion, your argument falls short since neither sail the same in equal conditions. Spending time on the boat you're going to cruise on and learning those nuances is more important than learning the nuances of a keel boat being knocked down in a gust of wind. Cats, as you know don't get knocked down they accelerate. So realizing this early and responding by reefing early is what's important. The OP will only learn this by sailing and learning on his preferred boat. I think it's best to agree to disagree on this.
Appreciate the positive response!

Starting with a monohull maybe gets me closer to "real" sailing, and maybe prepares me a bit more, but I still prefer to learn on what I actually plan on sailing. A couple of pages back people were very offended that I didn't have an interest in monohull sailing. The dream is to travel as easy as possible and catamaran seemed to offer that. I'm sure theres some great monohull's that would offer it as well, but I want that floating condo experience.

Aeroyacht? Should i be checking this one daily for cat listings along with Yachtworld?
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