Our Dream of Sailboat Living + Questions

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by Davy J

One thing I can tell you, is that BEFORE you go boat shopping, you better find a slip where you can keep the boat while getting it ready to cast off.

Your location says Florida, but not what part of FL. Most of the marinas in SW Florida can't accommodate a catamaran or are just plain filled up. Most of the full marinas had six month or longer waiting lists.

Wow, great piece of advice! I priced some out but I didn't check availability.

Added to the list. Thank you.

[Kenomac]

I’ve been through three great recessions, 2008 was nothing compared to 1990 when there was no government bail out.

Your financial assuptions are ridiculous.

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

New morning, new morning coffee thoughts! Yaay!!!

1) Rental properties: That's our income stream. Contrary to above advice, I would absolutely NOT sell them. Not just because they are our only income stream. I'm in the superminority I think, but I would hate knowing OK, I sold everything and now I can buy X boat and sail for 3 years and then sell it and get back to 'normal' life.... once you taste it, IF you like it, how could you ever go back?? We found an excellent property management company, and they take 7% of the income and do EVERYTHING. Handle evictions, handle repairs (and send me 3 quotes via email for each).... You have a guaranteed income stream in perpetuity.... as someone who might want to cruise forever, why would you ever ditch that security (except for rental property reasons, ie changing market to get a different rental house, etc)?

2) Renting to family because it's better/safer/easier? OH NO YOU DIDN'T GO THERE Please don't do that. Family is a beautiful thing... you can rely on family for anything. Including when you're short on rent. Are you gonna be able to evict a family member for not paying for a few months in order to finance your (to others) extravagant and entirely elective yacht lifestyle? Long and short answer: nope. So stick with strangers, be a good landlord with a good heart and a good management company, and be ready to email them from Belize or Madagascar to evict that bad tenant without a second thought.

3) You must have seen the thread on here about the batteries, right? It's huge and contentious and has a whole lot to learn from it.

4) Get both solar and wind rigged up, and I think you'll be fine with whatever batteries. Topping up with distilled water once in a while is not much maintenance at all. An idea which we use just for convenience but you might benefit more from: get a separate little solar panel electronics/laptop charger. We type in the cockpit a lot of the time, and it's just easier than running an extension cord up there. There are lots on amazon, and might be good emergency/supplemental power for the computers...

5) Regarding wind turbines, some are MUCH noisier than others! We've had good luck with Silentwind but haven't had much to compare it to, except what we hear at anchor. But you need it at night and after a few cloudy days in a row...

6) Regarding boat size, we were in the bought the largest we could afford camp, with the caveat of having enough left over for maintenance and such. Why? Because living on a 40 foot sailboat is not the same as a 50 foot, it is 10 feet longer but feels 30 feet better if you get what I mean... This is coming from someone who has also lived with my wife in a VW bus around the med for almost a year, and loved it (ie the tiniest home you can imagine). But now that I am a bit older (40 isn't the end of the world, and the girls are only 33 and 34, but still, you creak more) and there are three of us (six if you include three teenage kittens), we need a little more space, Kitty needs an office (which y'all might appreciate too), Cristina needs a sundeck, I need storage space for 2000 bottles of prosecco, blah blah. If you feel immediately cramped and ducking around inside a small boat, you (or worse, your partner) might get turned off real fast. I understand it's more prudent to try something small and cheap to see if you like it, but we bought the 53footer as our first boat because we've sailed a bit before, and sort of knew ourselves well enough to be able to anticipate that we would love it and love the adventure. And seven months in, that's been the case so far. And yes, I have known a guy who bought a 50 foot Jeanneau as his very first boat with ZERO sailing experience. Got an instructor to teach him how to sail on that exact boat, and is happily puttering around the Med right now. He did half-crush his hand starting out, but he's better now, and I'm sure smarter for the experience of not fending off with your own body

7) Hell yes, you are doing great for your age, you should be proud. Sure some people have been sailing and living on a boat since age 7, but those are as lucky in a different way as you (and me) who could get our hands on a boat way before retirement age Equally lucky, just differently.

8) Oh yeah, electronics.... I listed some before that are fun and have worked so far, not much else to add... most important electronics at the moment is the bread machine But seriously, we do have 2 of the two most important electronics systems in my limited opinion: plotter and autopilot, both standalone and separated for redundancy. Yes you can use an iPad to plot, yes you can hand steer, but you don't want to have to do either on a long passage. Good sound system, christmas lights, movie projector up, big flatscreen below....make the place feel like home! It's not electronics, but a good watermaker... not cheap but wow, having unlimited freshwater is amazing.

9) Go read an anchor thread If you don't have a new gen anchor on whatever you get, get one. Mantus, Rocna. They seem interchangeable but we have Rocna. Again, I haven't anchored with all kinds in all weather, but I do have enough experience to say this: Anchoring gear is your most important piece of gear, period. Anchoring with a sub-par or older style anchor can be fiddly, take multiple tries, and can put your boat at risk of complete destruction (and others near you) when it plows a furrow thru the anchorage. Won't matter what kind of batteries you have if you skimp on your rode and anchor setup if you end up on a beach. For cruising get the biggest authentic new gen type you can afford and fit on the bow, and sleep well at night. And with our Rocna, I can plop that sucker down almost anywhere on any ridiculous scope, back it down at 3/4 rpms, and it sticks like tick. That said, be smart and use 1:5 if you have room, and dive on it if you're gonna leave the boat for any decent length of time

11) Since I have a little coffee left, I'll say at least check out Amels. I always bore people with this, and if you have read above you know it's our first and only boat, so it's stupid to listen to me as I have a sample size of 1. But it is such a damn fine boat in terms of quality for money, space and layout and safety and ease of sailing, I can't imagine what could beat it. You won't win races, but you will trundle to the ends of the earth in comfort, for as little as 160,000....Massive storage space.... It reminds me of our old VW, slow and steady and always starts on the first crank. Ours is a 1991 Super Maramu, but the older Mangos, Santorins and Maramus are all fantastic once you upgrade them, and really, dirt cheap compared to lots out there. Kitty wrote about ours a bit on the website (in sig line) and there are photos there and on FB. You'll either love it or hate it, so at least it'll be an easy option to rule in or out. Also the only sailboat we found of that size with a proper queen-sized sundeck aft. The girls (and the cats) do love their sun

Right, that'll do for now! Off I go to read that battery thread some more and try to learn something....

Glad to hear the rental property is working for you. The part about not renting to family sounds like the right idea, will avoid.

So much great advice here and positive attitude. I appreciate you spending the time to write it all out. The Amels 53 is a great looking boat! We've got a ton of research to do on solar and batteries before choosing anything there. Ill checkout that thread.

Thanks again.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by KingGuppy

We don't know for sure, but the lean on some mono's I've seen makes my wife "Nope" right out of the idea. .

And what happens when you end up in a gale (where most non-sailors swear the boat they're on is going to sink and everyone is going to drown, with the high wind and waves) and your floating condo is getting a good 'lean' on? Or when you really get a chance to see some weather and you're bare pole rail buried trying to deploy a drogue just to have a ten min break from hand steering, cause the AP sh*t the bed, you're wife is puking in the cabin and refuses to let go of the dinette base, your head sail is shredded cause your electric furler jammed, and the only good news is you're not 'leaning' all that much cause you cant get your nose into the wind so you just pitching and 'bobbing' about in twenty foot swell that has 5 foot waves on top of them. What you haven't experienced yet is the stability that comes with that 'lean'or the fact that you can control how much or little there is. Honestly I don't watch YT sailing channels but I am aware of them, but IF i were too I would much rather watch someone sail around the world in a $5,000 boat on a shoestring budget and really goes somewhere and sees things VS another Cat party boat sailing the carib. Best sailing 'show' I've watched in while was 'Mutiny' a recreation of the 3600nm voyage in a 23 foot wooden boat with 8 guys and period food and Nav equipment (support vessel of course) through the south pacific, that was entertaining.

[Rontero]

And to everyone on this thread giving advice, I really do appreciate it. I have similar thoughts about Mono vs Cat, Lithium, boat costs, earning money etc. and your comments are very helpful.

Especially the ideas around where to focus your energy. It's great hearing from those who have been doing it for a while and those just starting out.

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by rbk

And what happens when you end up in a gale (where most non-sailors swear the boat they're on is going to sink and everyone is going to drown, with the high wind and waves) and your floating condo is getting a good 'lean' on? Or when you really get a chance to see some weather and you're bare pole rail buried trying to deploy a drogue just to have a ten min break from hand steering, cause the AP sh*t the bed, you're wife is puking in the cabin and refuses to let go of the dinette base, your head sail is shredded cause your electric furler jammed, and the only good news is you're not 'leaning' all that much cause you cant get your nose into the wind so you just pitching and 'bobbing' about in twenty foot swell that has 5 foot waves on top of them. What you haven't experienced yet is the stability that comes with that 'lean'or the fact that you can control how much or little there is. Honestly I don't watch YT sailing channels but I am aware of them, but IF i were too I would much rather watch someone sail around the world in a $5,000 boat on a shoestring budget and really goes somewhere and sees things VS another Cat party boat sailing the carib. Best sailing 'show' I've watched in while was 'Mutiny' a recreation of the 3600nm voyage in a 23 foot wooden boat with 8 guys and period food and Nav equipment (support vessel of course) through the south pacific, that was entertaining.

How often does this scenario happen?

[rbk]

Originally Posted by KingGuppy

How often does this scenario happen?

Only needs to happen once, might even be the last if not handled properly.

[rbk]

In all honesty you'll probably encounter uncomfortable to down right terrifying (depending on your demeanour) situations a half dozen or more times in your first year and less and less as you gain experience. As you look back you'll see that they weren't that bad or at least avoidable. As mentioned it would be very prudent of you to buy a smallish <30' boat and weekend it for the next two years while you save (you can probably find something for 2-3 grand and sell for the same); nothing fancy, even something with an outboard. If you were to do that, it would go a long way in showing that you are in fact ready to do this and accept the responsibility that comes with it. To deny it shows your ignorance and arrogance.

[drewm3i]

My two cents from a life-long power boater in South Florida, but new sailor:

The advice to take it slowly and start small is great. We have worked from a 20' power boat to a 40' Ericson sloop. In the process, we boated from Stuart to the Florida Keys extensively, learning as we went. In the process, we've drug anchor, battled different types of seas and run aground, learning these lessons close to home. Now that we are transitioning to a sailboat, we already know how to dock, navigate, anchor, tie off to a mooring, fix anything and everything, etc. Getting out there is the only way to learn!

Also, you are discounting how much a loan and insurance will inhibit your plans!!! Most insurers will not just cover you to go anywhere. There are all sorts of seasonal exclusions and provisions that you must follow to the tee. There is bluewater insurance, but it will be Soo expensive! It is very difficult to get good coverage with not too many restrictions in Florida. For our cash boat, we can opt to go naked or liability. With a loan, you cannot! For example: many insurers would not allow us to go more than 200 miles offshore of the Bahamas or Florida, putting the Caribbean and Cuba off limits. They also will not cover the transit to the Caribbean, though you can pick up new coverage once you arrive.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by drewm3i

you are discounting how much a loan and insurance will inhibit your plans!!! Most insurers will not just cover you to go anywhere. There are all sorts of seasonal exclusions and provisions that you must follow to the tee. There is bluewater insurance, but it will be Soo expensive! It is very difficult to get good coverage with not too many restrictions in Florida. For our cash boat, we can opt to go naked or liability. With a loan, you cannot! For example: many insurers would not allow us to go more than 200 miles offshore of the Bahamas or Florida, putting the Caribbean and Cuba off limits. They also will not cover the transit to the Caribbean, though you can pick up new coverage once you arrive.

Excellent point... but I regret to inform you that the OP isn't here for your financial advice. He's doing just fine..........

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by drewm3i

My two cents from a life-long power boater in South Florida, but new sailor:
Also, you are discounting how much a loan and insurance will inhibit your plans!!! Most insurers will not just cover you to go anywhere. There are all sorts of seasonal exclusions and provisions that you must follow to the tee. There is bluewater insurance, but it will be Soo expensive! It is very difficult to get good coverage with not too many restrictions in Florida. For our cash boat, we can opt to go naked or liability. With a loan, you cannot! For example: many insurers would not allow us to go more than 200 miles offshore of the Bahamas or Florida, putting the Caribbean and Cuba off limits. They also will not cover the transit to the Caribbean, though you can pick up new coverage once you arrive.

Great information to know!

How difficult is it to increase the coverage once you arrive? We were assuming around 2.5% boat value per year in insurance.

[KingGuppy]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

Excellent point... but I regret to inform you that the OP isn't here for your financial advice. He's doing just fine..........

Insurance information is great advice! I'm sure other future cruisers reading this want to know it as well.

I understand you're trying hard to be negative on this post, but don't take it out on other forum members that are offering actual help.

[drewm3i]

Originally Posted by KingGuppy

Great information to know!

How difficult is it to increase the coverage once you arrive? We were assuming around 2.5% boat value per year in insurance.

Others will know better, but from what I've seen, unless you have very expensive bluewater, go anywhere insurance-- which may or may not be available on a production cat around 40'--you will simply be cancelling policies all the time and purchasing new ones. Transit will amost never be covered. I personally would rather just avoid this altogether as it defeats the purpose of cutting the dock cord...

[Otia]

Originally Posted by KingGuppy

The Amels 53 is a great looking boat!

IMHO the Amel Super Maramu is everything but great looking. It is heavy, slow, and designed for downwind sailing, thus very much appreciated by circumnavigators. See, there is no best boat. There is the boat that fits your sailing. If you intend to stay in the Caribbean's then a Cat will do just fine. There is a lot of cat bashing, but if you want that kind of sailing then its fine.

The Amel second hand market is overpriced IMHO. Probably because of the popularity of s/v Delos. Have you checked the new Amel 50? Now we're talking...

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by KingGuppy

Insurance information is great advice! I'm sure other future cruisers reading this want to know it as well.

I understand you're trying hard to be negative on this post, but don't take it out on other forum members that are offering actual help.

I thought it was clear that my comment was directed at you. Not drewm3i. However, let me explain that the negative reaction you got from me and a few other folks on this thread was due to the whiff of arrogance in your posts regarding the financials of owning a large boat. I own one, and I assure you that having, maintaining, and cruising one is more expensive than most people imagine during the planning stage. The long term financials should be carefully considered.

As someone just a few years your senior, I encourage you to get into sailing and cruising. For me, it has been life-changing in a very positive way. This forum has some very intelligent and experienced folks on it and it has provided me with answers to myriad questions and has helped me realize my cruising dreams.

So, in the spirit of cruisers forum.....

A great person to talk to about insurance if you want real world numbers is Hugo Hanham Gross. He's friendly and patient and will happily talk to you about the differences between coastal insurance policies and ones for offshore cruising etc. etc. I'm not affiliated with him, just a satisfied customer.

Hugo Hanham Gross
HANHAM INSURANCE AGENCY
Yachts, Boats, Marine


Hugo Hanham-Gross
T: +1 843 410 2990
E: hugo@hanhaminsurance.com
W: www.hanhaminsurance.com