Outremer 45(48) vs Amel 53

[alsail]

Hi everyone.
We own an Amel SM that is for sale ATM and thinking to switch to an Outremer 45 which is 48ft long. My only concern is the behavior in rough seas of a Outremer. I have never been on one in rough conditions and I am not able to.do it as they are not for charter. I understand in rolly and light conditions the movement is way better than on my Amel, which tends to roll a lot.
So how does it compare with a monohull.in rough or passage conditions?. Is there any particular problem I should be concerned about when buying an O45?
Thanks for your help

[chrisr]

not sailed an outremer 45 however the motion on all cats is significantly more "jerky" than the "swoopy" feel of a mono. cats don't roll but they bounce and wobble

this suits some folk but may upset others. seems a very personal thing

cheers,

[fxykty]

The easiest way to describe it is that the lighter cat sits on top of the water, while the monohull, and heavier cats to a lesser extent, sit in the water. The motion is a tango vs a waltz.

That said, it’s not very often that you’re in those kinds of conditions (typically sailing upwind in moderate wind (say 25 knots TWS) with waves and swells from different directions, such as after a wind shift or off a big headland). Regular sailing conditions rarely have that combination of seas that have the boat tilting one way then the other.

All the rest of the time you have no rolling (especially downwind passages) and minimal heeling all the time. It’s a reasonable trade off IMO.

[smj]

We switched to catamarans over 30 years ago because I have an inner ear imbalance. We greatly prefer the motion of the catamaran but there are plenty that like the motion of a monohull.

[Kinkircating]

Everyone’s perception will be a bit different, but on a catamaran I’ve been in 3M confused seas with 35 knots of wind and still able to cook dinner comfortably and have glasses sitting on the table without worry they’ll topple over. A mono in the same conditions is a wildly different experience where you calculate every step and handhold to move 6 feet.

Now that being said, it’s my opinion that for some this is probably a false sense of security because cats don’t heal and there is a danger of too much speed and pitch poling, so you really need to be on point paying attention more so than in a monohull.

It’s all trade offs but having sailed a fair number of miles aboard each we vastly prefer cats. I can appreciate why others would feel as strongly about monos, as I like the “feel” of sailing aboard them better…for about 2 hours, then I’m ready to go faster while not standing at a 20 degree angle and have all that extra space.

[Matt Johnson]

While it may be difficult to get on an Outremer, there are other performance oriented cats that will offer a similar feel and allow you to make sure it's right for you before purchase.

Everyone is different in what makes a boat comfortable to them. While a lot of people (and most sailing books) prefer the old double ender style monohull when offshore, the steady rolling causes both my wife and I to get horribly sick with no relief. But on a sporty light boat - mono or multihull - the quick unpredictable motion works better for our stomachs and we don't have that issue.

[Matt Johnson]

Where are you sailing from? Someone on here might be able to get you aboard a performance cat so you can understand the descriptions you've been given.

[alsail]

Thank you all.for.your replies and advise so far. I am in Fiji, Savusavu ATM. And if I get the opportunity I will definitely ask . I won't buy anything unless try it in choppy conditions. I am still looking at an O55 Danson as an alternative to O45(48). I am looking for a fast passage maker and light winds performance. On top of it safety . If that is not too much, )).
As far as interior I don't want huge spaces, I am happy with what O55 light has to offer for example. Not sure how O45 newer version compares to O55 Danson. We have been on a 51 and it is too big for.my needs.

[catsketcher]

Keep an eye out for any performance cruising cat. Row out to the boat, say nice things about it and how you are interested in performance cats. You will probably be invited aboard. You might be invited for a daysail. Then you can judge for yourself and ask lots of relevant questions. An Aussie cat called Roam is in Fiji now. It is a well built and well travelled Craig Schinonning design. They have a website. It is much better to get direct experience on performance cats than to research on the Net. Cheers Phil

[Chablis 1]

There’s a O45 Danson for sale in New Caledonia, not far from Fidji. Have a look on Yachting22.com.
Thomas

[yeloya]

Yr comparison base to start with is weird..Amel is a great mono , very solid, forgiving and not a "fast" one. Outremer on the other hand is one of the fastest catamarans and in strong winds you need to have yr hand on it every second, not necesarily for safety reason but these cats need to be trimmed well to enjoy and if you do it properly you get definately rewarded for speed and also for comfort. I sailed O 51 and regularly sailing my Catana 47, didn't sail Amel but sailed various monos. The motion in performance cats is much better thanks to their slim hulls and high bridge deck clearances. If you are motoring or motor sailing tough in high seas , you may miss yr Amel. These cats are very light and accelerates/decelerates very fast whilst monos with heavy keels have less inertia and they keep better their momentum of speed. For all the rest Outremer beats Amel by far, no doubt.

Cheers

Yeloya

[alsail]

Thanks for your reply. This is not a comparison between Amel.and O45 by any means, as I know Amel.and sailed it offshore and coastal .
It was a question about movement in rough seas compared to a monohull, as I have never been on a catamaran in rough conditions. And I.would appreciate any other feedback about O45. Thanks

[JPA Cate]

Hi, alsail,

Interesting question. Jim and I came within a hair's breadth of switching to a catamaran, before we bought our present boat; there were two negatives attached to the cat: it had two Volvo engines--"Volvo won't go", etc. with associated ridiculously high parts prices, and by then we had over 30 yrs. dealing with monohulls' behaviors in all kinds of situations and sea states. We realized we knew little about sailing a desirable catamaran well, and our present boat came along and we snaffled her up.

You already have an admirable "present boat". Not a flyer, and so, if you're really keen on going faster, I have to say I was very favorably impressed with the first Outremer I went on, it was really set up to sail well, and you could see everything one needs to see from the cockpit. So go for it. It's a question of values, and also sail quality. I wonder if all your current boat needs to sail okay in light airs is better sails? If the sails are fine, and you're still unhappy with the light air performance, and you've tried lightening the ship, and still unhappy, well it's supposed to be fun, so why not try the Outremer?

Ann

[alsail]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, alsail,

Interesting question. Jim and I came within a hair's breadth of switching to a catamaran, before we bought our present boat; there were two negatives attached to the cat: it had two Volvo engines--"Volvo won't go", etc. with associated ridiculously high parts prices, and by then we had over 30 yrs. dealing with monohulls' behaviors in all kinds of situations and sea states. We realized we knew little about sailing a desirable catamaran well, and our present boat came along and we snaffled her up.

You already have an admirable "present boat". Not a flyer, and so, if you're really keen on going faster, I have to say I was very favorably impressed with the first Outremer I went on, it was really set up to sail well, and you could see everything one needs to see from the cockpit. So go for it. It's a question of values, and also sail quality. I wonder if all your current boat needs to sail okay in light airs is better sails? If the sails are fine, and you're still unhappy with the light air performance, and you've tried lightening the ship, and still unhappy, well it's supposed to be fun, so why not try the Outremer?

Ann

Thanks.
Yes we like the Amel except for 3 things.
1 is light air performance
2 is maintaining the ele tric furlers
3 rolling in downwind conditions
On the other hand , the only production cat I would buy it's an Outremer, nothing else. Solid FG bellow waterline is non negotiable for.me and it has to have narrow hulls and daggerboards . I am.willing to.compromise on comfort, no problem.
My 2 concerns with catamarans are
1. Behavior in big seas
2. The most important is the structure stress and durability, as all the catamarans I've seen have stress cracks. Not sure if Outremer develops.these

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by yeloya

Yr comparison base to start with is weird..Amel is a great mono , very solid, forgiving and not a "fast" one. Outremer on the other hand is one of the fastest catamarans and in strong winds you need to have yr hand on it every second, not necesarily for safety reason but these cats need to be trimmed well to enjoy and if you do it properly you get definately rewarded for speed and also for comfort. I sailed O 51 and regularly sailing my Catana 47, didn't sail Amel but sailed various monos. The motion in performance cats is much better thanks to their slim hulls and high bridge deck clearances. If you are motoring or motor sailing tough in high seas , you may miss yr Amel. These cats are very light and accelerates/decelerates very fast whilst monos with heavy keels have less inertia and they keep better their momentum of speed. For all the rest Outremer beats Amel by far, no doubt.

Cheers

Yeloya

I believe that more mass gives you more inertia and more resistance to going elsewhere. Meaning more resistance to bobbing or getting pushed around