PDQ 32 vs Gemini 105MC

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by smj

Sounds like the Turks and Caicos shouldn't be at the top of the list as a cruising destination? Is there a lot of other crime there?

Not compared to, say, Jamaica, Guyana, Trinidad, Venezuela, Mexico, Guatemala, Haiti, Dominican Republic, etc. They'll steal your outboard there, too. We plan to get a bit off the published route recommendations.

Having gotten pretty involved with visiting cruisers here over the past few years ( we're on the morning Cruiser's Net, and have met quite a few personally, had them to our home, etc.) I would say I know of only one incident involving a visiting sailboat. It was an RIB that was left floating overnight, for a week, tethered to the catamaran.

I don't really see it as a problem for cruisers. They don't bother boats with people on them. They snag boats when no one is looking, tow them out and strip the motors off. They are not going to step onto an occupied boat in an occupied marina. These are sneaky thieves, scared of getting caught. Not gun toting desperados. They're conspicuous in the yachting crowd, would have trouble answering questions in fluent English. they don't want to be seen. They go for easy grabs. I guess the level of perceived security is inversely proportional to the distance one gets from the pavement. We intend some off-road boating.

Again, in our situation, we will have to leave the boat here for long periods while we are travelling elsewhere. An unoccupied boat with outboards. Not a cruiser.

[Canibul]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

I'm looking at the PDQ 36, its draft is 34", but compared to a mono of the same interior space, won't keep me from reef lined anchorages, just come and go during high tide. Would not try that in the 6'~7' draft of a 40'+ mono.

Since you wrote that I have been going over every other boat mentioned in this thread and others. I am increasingly liking the PDQ 36 over the Gemini, in most things. I like the PDQ better. But I still have to think it's the second choice for us if I apply logic to my best information about both boats in light of our situation.

Gemini amasses points on draft, kick up boards and rudders, narrow beam, and inboard diesel with a 60 amp alternator option. I am trying hard to come up with a setup that allows a small watermaker but doesn't require me to add a generator to run it an hour a day. We live without ac already.

Since this thread was started, we've witnessed another cruiser hit a coral head 9 miles from here, and have to wait until the next day to be towed. He lost all steering, was lucky he was in a period of smooth weather. He still sat on the hook just on the horizon waiting for someone to come get him. Cruisers get upset here when they radio their problem and nobody rushes out to help them. There are no government or even full time private towing or rescue organizations here. The marinas don't maintain offshore towing services, either. hitting a coral head in an isolated place like this can really, really ruin your day. I have to keep reminding myself how important that draft is for our location.

We like the looks of the PDQ more. We like the tramps, and the low windage, and the bridgedeck clearance. If it could run over a coral head and keep sailing with nothing more than a dinged edge on a kick up, we would be looking for one now. There. I've said it.

[Dulcesuenos]

Not sure if someone answered this but what is the draft with gems drive leg down? Are they really that much louder with the diesel? Can u sleep 2 adults in the aft berths without stacking?

Also as for the PDQ I read a review that said very very little storage. Still sweet lines on that one

[Canibul]

I think Therapy said his draft was more like 22 inches. Not sure if he meant a loaded up hull, or the drive leg down.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I have to keep reminding myself how important that draft is for our location.

We like the looks of the PDQ more. We like the tramps, and the low windage, and the bridgedeck clearance. If it could run over a coral head and keep sailing with nothing more than a dinged edge on a kick up, we would be looking for one now. There. I've said it.

What is the actual difference??

Is it that critical that a bit of careful piloting can"t manage.

Rudders could most likely be changed to kick but up naturally at a cost.

Admitidly I have never seen a PQD 36.

[Therapy]

Here is what one owner posted in the past.

Loaded and ready to head out I think.

All components up - 23.5"
Drive leg down - 33.0"
Rudders Down - 42.0"


I promise I will measure my boat in it's cruising weight this April if we get to go to the Keys again.

Then I will know for sure.

I do know the rudders kick before the drive leg - Thank goodness as the yoke will break (sacrificial) if the leg lock is not unlocked.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by Canibul

Did anyone yet mention one of the major differences in the PDQ 32 and the Gemini is the draft? It's 18" for the Gemini, and 34" for the PDQ.

That is the game changer for us. A PDQ will hit coral heads here in many places at low tides. A Gemini won't, with the boards up. And with the boards down, they swivel up.

I don't see the issues with one diesel motor vs two gasoline ones. I'll take the diesel every time. Put a dinghy motor mount on the Gem, if it worries you.

People in third world countries steal outboards. They can use them. In fact, since we've been here, dinghys, outboards and portable gas cans are the only things we have heard of being lifted from boats. Be kinda intense to try to steal that diesel out of a Gemini. I've never heard of it being done.

PDQ is a better looking boat. I have no doubt it's well built. A shame it draws so much water for a small boat.

Well if the drive leg on the gem draws 33" is there really a huge factor here? Im guessing with the leg up the rudders will be too and steerage will be crappy at best under sail you can't motor so really its less draft is ok and a benefit in an emergency but not for overall practical reasons it draws as much or more then many other cats

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

it draws as much or more then many other cats

Yep.

The difference is that if you hit something it don't break and the boat don't stop.

That is the theory though, but I have not tested it at over 2 knots.

[Mr B]

With the centre boards down, the Gem has a draught of 5 feet.

I have sailed in 3 feet of water with no problems, A couple of times,
Only because the land comes straight up out of the ocean, Its time to hit reverse when this happens,

As you can see, this is the Gemini out of the water, I was fixing the Universal joint on the boat which broke two bolts and left me with no propulsion in the river.
You can see the rudders up out of the way, The centre boards are up in their case and totally out of harms way.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Yep.

The difference is that if you hit something it don't break and the boat don't stop.

That is the theory though, but I have not tested it at over 2 knots.

Totaly understand but think this is not the reason to chose this boat over one that has a controllable draft of 1" less. careful piloting etc... are more important. what happens if your motoring towards land where its supposed to be deep and all of a sudden its not, your drive leg kicks, your rudders kick, your now drifting towards shallow reefs and at any second you could start scraping and grinding. Another scenario your heading to anchor you show plenty of water, all of a sudden your rudders kick, drive leg kicks the wind is pushing right towards a beach.... With the Pdq you might be able to power off in reverse in either situation.
Not slamming the Gem, heck I may own one some day, who knows, just saying the draft diff seems kind of a moot point as a reason to choose one over the other.
heck Ive seen monos that draw only 6" on their sides

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Totaly understand but think this is not the reason to chose this boat over one that has a controllable draft of 1" less. careful piloting etc... are more important. what happens if your motoring towards land where its supposed to be deep and all of a sudden its not, your drive leg kicks, your rudders kick, your now drifting towards shallow reefs and at any second you could start scraping and grinding. Another scenario your heading to anchor you show plenty of water, all of a sudden your rudders kick, drive leg kicks the wind is pushing right towards a beach.... With the Pdq you might be able to power off in reverse in either situation.
Not slamming the Gem, heck I may own one some day, who knows, just saying the draft diff seems kind of a moot point as a reason to choose one over the other.
heck Ive seen monos that draw only 6" on their sides

Draught depends on where you do most of your sailing, If your always in deep water, Draught is irrelevant,

If your your rudders kick up, You going too fast for the conditions,

Usually, the Gemini's rudders wont kick up, because your already aground under the hulls,

You can certainly feel your aground long before the rudders will kick up,

I put my Gemini into reverse and back off, before I hit any thing,
I dont travel fast in shallow water,

Preferably with some one on the bow directing which way through shallow water.

From shallow to deep water, Cant you see the change in the water colours,

7 Knots @ 2500 RPM backwards, should be ample to get any boat out of trouble. Thats what the Gemini does,

If the PDQ is scraping and grinding. The Gemini can back off untouched. due to its shallower draught. Hahahahahaha,

Comes down to which boat you personally like better, and which one suits your needs the most.

Check the statistics for both, Which one sinks the most, I would like to know too,
Tells you which boat is more sea worthy,

If you do run aground, check all your thu hulls, to make sure you havent cracked or popped one out of the hull,

Easy to see, they will be leaking or pouring water, Stuff rags or towels into the holes till it stops leaking.

My depth sounder is approx 15 feet in front of my rudders, Very helpfull at night by ones self.

It did save my bacon in Fiji. Unmarked man made breakwater, Half a mile off the beach. You cant see it at high tide from the beach, I sailed in there at low tide and at night, Its 2 feet out of the water then, Depth sounder gave 3 feet from 34 feet, hit reverse fast, I think the bows just touched, Not good for my new paint,

[Canibul]

It's not like the two boats have essentially the same draft. remember the PDQ is a 34" continuously, in two places. Both keels. If either hull goes over something hard 33" away, even under ideal conditions ( light boat, smooth water) you are going to damage the boat. When something fiberglass hits something hard, fiberglass always loses. We met two of our cruising friends right here while they waited a month to get a new disposable/expendable/sacrificial keel made and installed for their Victory 35 in the boatyard we can see from the patio. "Dancing Dolphin" has a four foot draft. They hit a coral head. They are all over the place here. A Gemini would not have stuck them in a crummy boatyard for a month.
lemme show you something.

This is a location here in the TCI where we hope to spend maybe a week or two at a time. this area is uninhabited, and there are submerged and land based ruins near here from 1800. We want to explore, photograph, and write about them while living on the boat anchored here. There is no channel here. There are no buoys. There is no other boat to follow, nor cruising guide description of the approach.


And in this image are several nice little spots to stick a coastal cruiser for a night while running an underwater metal detector down the windward side during the day.

But notice the waves breaking over exposed coral heads to the west, which is the direction we would be coming from. Which boat would you want to be running through here at night if things went to heck and you had to leave that anchorage and head west to get home during a blow?

And one more...this is another area I am interested in. On the charts, this is smooth blue water that says 'unsurveyed' and randomly says "Numerous Heads".



These are just some spots in our local cruising area, less than 50 miles from our front door. And I had a 40 year career essentially finding things in the ocean. Imagine the spots I might have picked out to explore from a liveaboard, that I am not posting on a public boating forum. We have a lot of plans that do not involve established channels. And where information is old and sandbars shift yearly.

Another scenario where I pause to consider the two drafts is tucked up in the lee of a small cay waiting out weather. If I can tuck the boards, rudders, and drive up and float in two feet of water, I am not nearly as concerned about where the boat can swing at anchor. this opens up a lot of potential anchorages in remote places. This is something we are paying attention to.

And yes, of course, I know that a Gemini cannot sail worth diddly with boards and rudders all the way up. Except in a couple of circumstances that I can think of. One of them is getting in over a sandbar or reef where there isn't a cut. All you need is two feet of water at high tide, and to be able to set up a downwind run. I am thinking that towing something as a drogue and a slight peek of jib might just get me into someplace no other coastal cruiser can get to.

Think of where I could get to, if I were towing the catamaran with the dinghy until I got to deeper water. Think Central American rivers.

Another situation is being completely adrift, and about to go aground totally out of control of boat attitude. Hmm. Do I want to be stopped dead in the storm and breaking up on the reef a mile offshore, or do I want the boat to be beached knee deep a short stroll from the nearest tree?

I'm talking myself back into the Gemini, aren't I.

Do the Gemini rudders both kickup simultaneously, or can they kick up independently?

[Mr B]

I did exactly that,

Stepped off the front of my Gemini into about 2 feet of water on the beach,

The waves were coming over the transom at the rear, Both hulls were flooded,

I got my anchor and tied it to a picnic table on the beach, to stop it moving sideways onto the rocks,

Have some one stand on the bow and tell you which way to go, or if it is too shallow or there are rocks to avoid,

Rudders come up independently, so do the centre boards,

I dont think the propellor goes down past the bottom line of the hulls,

[amytom]

You're obviously going to choose whichever boat speaks to you; but,

I've never met a PDQ owner who wished they'd bought the Gem. I've met several Gem owners who wished they'd found a PDQ.

As far as dagger boards taking damage instead of the keels... The PDQ keels could be taken completely off and the hull would still be intact. They are designed to be sacrificial in a full speed strike. More than likely they would only be damaged and need minor repairs instead. I've hit the keels several times and the worst I've seen is paint scratched.

While I haven't studied the Gem's boards, the one's I have looked at are mounted in trunks that if damaged would open the hull to the sea.

Now the rudders are a different story, I struck one of my rudders on a rock (less than 2 feet depth) and where the Gem would have kicked up mine jammed into the hull. I was able to disconnect the two rudders and complete my vacation with one rudder. The rudder that was jammed was pushed into a crash compartment and the main hull stayed dry.


As far as outboard engine theft, the PDQ engine wells make it very difficult to even see the engines much less get them out. And I've been to TCI many times (I'll be on Provo next week) and the boat crime rate isn't any higher there than any other Island.


I would recommend the PDQ over the Gem. The PDQ feels solid and strong, the Gem feels more like the old MacGregor I used to have.


Good luck either way.

[webejammin]

"I would recommend the PDQ over the Gem. The PDQ feels solid and strong, the Gem feels more like the old MacGregor I used to have."


amytom your MacGregor must have been really stable ours was not stable a really tender boat even for a monohull. We sold our MacGregor 26M after buying our Gemini 105Mc and there is no compairson with any cat even a Hobie 16.