Performance catamarans 40-48 foot range

[poseidon2027]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

The OP said his plan is to go sailing with his wife. Does he mean cruising or weekending. My observation is that condomarans handle loads without as much of a performance hit as the performance cats. Once one puts a cruising load on them they may be outrun by a condomaran. My boat is almost the definition of condomaran and I have out run a loaded Catana 44. When we came around he west side of New Providence together on our way to Highborne I expected them to walk away from me quite briskly. We actually beat them to Highborne by over an hour. If op plans on going cruising a decently performing condomaran might work out better than a so called performance cat.

Our plan is to cruise around the caribbean for a year or so. After it will be up to the missus if we continue to the other side of the globe or end the journey. Im praying for the former.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

Thank you for this, I definitely liked hearing it. Our main first choice is actually the FP Isla 40. I just read in other places that construction and quality of the FP's are not the best. They said to stick to Lagoon if im going this route. Its a shame because we really fell in love with the Isla 40. Then I kept going down the rabbit hole and started learning about performance cats and the differences.

Now I just dont know. Maybe a condo in the 44-46 ala Lagoon 450s or Helia 44 may be the best way. But those are honestly too big inside for us. Why doesnt a 45 foot catamaran with the interior of a 40 foot catamaran exist? In the end i think thats what im looking for to get the best of both worlds, doesnt look like it exists though.

I’m with you! Is there ever the “perfect boat”?! As I mentioned, the layout/design of the Isla 40 has many of the features we prefer - ie: helm & winch location/layout, flat cabin top, low boom, single large guest bath, up galley, well laid out cockpit, etc.. It would be perfect in a bit longer format - minimum 42’, but ideally 45’. That adds to waterline length and boosts interior volume up from the bare minimum I see a 40’ boat providing. As far as quality, everyone bashes on production boats, especially the CNC production interiors (aka IKEA style). In the past I preferred the Leopard over the other production boats. I’m definitely not sure I’d call a Lagoon over a FP, as my experience is Lagoon is the definition of mass production. The other issue that gives me reservation with FP is the supplied engine manufacturer being Volvo. I’d much rather see a Yanmar but don’t know and doubt they provide that option.

Good luck on your research!

[Zzmeyer]

Just saw two 2019 FP Saona 47 for sale in Florida. At $1.2 million They are asking 30 percent more than new price but you get to beat the three year wait. Hope things change before you need to go hunting. I found almost no nearly new cats in the US under $500,000.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

Why doesnt a 45 foot catamaran with the interior of a 40 foot catamaran exist? In the end i think thats what im looking for to get the best of both worlds, doesnt look like it exists though.

It does, the Outremer 45 is one such boat. Plus a bunch of kit boats listed above from Schionning, Grainger etc

[Smooth Cruiser]

Another vote for Schionnings.

As with all things - boat choice is all about compromise. In catamarans the old project management triangle can be used - on the corners you can have Low Price, High Performance and High Comfort (Load Carrying). You can have one of these easily, to get two of these is more difficult but possible but you can't get all three!

Personally I lean to the high performance end with modest spend so I have a Schionning which is comfortable enough, economical enough and very fast. I wouldn't worry about restricting my search to 2 years old, there are a lot of older boats out there that are great boats and a lot cheaper. I also wouldn't look over 45 feet for a couple 38-44 is probably a good manageable size range.

Other boats to consider if high performance with modest spend aligns with your philosophy are Oram's, Pescott's, Crowthers and Lightwaves. I would also add Seawind to the list although some are good and some not so good - a modified Seawind with longer hulls and a better rig can go very well.

If you don't lean this way then I can't help you as your priorities will differ! I couldn't imagine plodding around in a Lagoon/Leopard/FP or spending a motza on a HH, Gunboat or an Outremer.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by tp12

It does, the Outremer 45 is one such boat. Plus a bunch of kit boats listed above from Schionning, Grainger etc

A few years back Outremer began offering 3' hull extensions as an option to the 45. Now they all come that way and are actually 48' long.
https://catamaran-outremer.com/en/ca...s/outremer-45/

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by elee

You may have already seen this video:

The Windelo 50 there... they put it at light displacement 12.5 tons (are they talking US tons here?), while the Windelo advertises 11.2 T (I assume metric tonnes).

They throw out (serious) doubt about that number, however, and I don't know what to make of that

EDIT: I checked the second video and the sheet actually says "tonnes". So they say (and don't believe) 12.5 tonnes, when Windelo says 11.2

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

The Windelo 50 there... they put it at light displacement 12.5 tons (are they talking US tons here?), while the Windelo advertises 11.2 T (I assume metric tonnes).

They throw out (serious) doubt about that number, however, and I don't know what to make of that

EDIT: I checked the second video and the sheet actually says "tonnes". So they say (and don't believe) 12.5 tonnes, when Windelo says 11.2

Well one is dry weight and the other with all fluids and watertank full. This 1 t really doesn't matter as a 50ft its very light in 11 and 12t...

I throw the Neel 43 and 45 in the ring... Trimaran fast and quite cheap, calculate 15% of new price additionally to fix their quality problems and you have a great performance trimaran.
Order or buy it in 5 years, you need 2 years to fully sort out the boat before full time cruising, will save your marriage and likelihood the misses wants to continue after 2 years rises a lot...

... A 5 years old well equipped owners cat or tri is the sweet spot

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

The Windelo 50 there... they put it at light displacement 12.5 tons (are they talking US tons here?), while the Windelo advertises 11.2 T (I assume metric tonnes).

They throw out (serious) doubt about that number, however, and I don't know what to make of that

EDIT: I checked the second video and the sheet actually says "tonnes". So they say (and don't believe) 12.5 tonnes, when Windelo says 11.2

Well one is dry weight and the other with all fluids and watertank full. This 1 t really doesn't matter as a 50ft its very light in 11 and 12t...

I throw the Neel 43 and 45 in the ring... Trimaran fast and quite cheap, calculate 15% off new price to fix their quality problems and you have a great performance trimaran.
Order or buy it in 5 years, you need 2 years to fully sort out the boat... A 5 years old well equipped owners cat or tri is the sweet spot

[slowNlow]

Originally Posted by poseidon2027

Hello All,

I am very new to sailing and have a long term plan in motion to purchase a catamaran and sail with my wife in the 7-10 year frame. I know that is a long time aways but I want to start planning now.

I have read a lot about "condomarans" like Lagoon, FP and Leopard, so I am wondering about Performance Cats in the 40-48foot range.

I know about Outremer's, HH, Catanas and others but those all seems to be in the 48+ range. Since it will be just me and the Mrs. and we will be fairly new sailors, from what I have read the 40-45 pushing it to 48 range would be best for us. I've read a lot but cant seems to find any performance cats in that range.

I know there's the 4X and Outremer 45 and probably others, but those may be a little expensive, is there an in-between? Seems like its either Lagoon, FP or over a million dollars!

Lastly, when I am ready to buy I heard its best to buy 1-2 years old, so basically my Cat hasnt been built yet and new models will surely come out in that time, BUT if you could buy a 2 year old performance cat in the 40-48 foot what would it be?

Sorry for the long post, let me know if there are any questions I can answer.

In 7 years there should be some good 2022 - 2025 model performance cruising cats pop up in the market. Tons of entries right now... and they are cranking them out. HH has a cool 40 in build. Balance has the 442 about to launch and has floated at least three of their 48 models (482).

[MyCatLife]

Agree with above,... have a look at the Balance 482. That would be my pic in the sub 50 foot performance class.

Not what you asked... but have quick look at the Privilege 510 as well. Nothing performance about it... but oh so nice. My wife and I are in a similar situation... We are leaning toward the Privilege 510 or 580 ATM. We are going to be slow paced cruising so speed not as important as comfort...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcCNannnhGI

[kiwin]

I often see inexperienced sailors choose multihulls. Why? They are harder to sail and less forgiving. If you make a mistake in a multi it's more likely to have disastrous consequences like capsize, in a mono the thing lies flat and turns into wind with everything flapping, and you get to live again. I am not anti-multihull, but I do think that they are less suitable for the inexperienced. It's harder to feel when a multi is overpressed.

What a multihull gives you is : shallow draught, and less heeling. If shallow draught is important to you then this might be worth the trade off. If not, then for the same price, you can get a monohull which is easier to sail and has roughly the same room and performance as a cat or tri. If I was going to sail in the Bahamas, then yes a multihull would be the way to go, to cross the Pacific, probably not.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by kiwin

I often see inexperienced sailors choose multihulls. Why? They are harder to sail and less forgiving. If you make a mistake in a multi it's more likely to have disastrous consequences like capsize, in a mono the thing lies flat and turns into wind with everything flapping, and you get to live again. I am not anti-multihull, but I do think that they are less suitable for the inexperienced. It's harder to feel when a multi is overpressed.

What a multihull gives you is : shallow draught, and less heeling. If shallow draught is important to you then this might be worth the trade off. If not, then for the same price, you can get a monohull which is easier to sail and has roughly the same room and performance as a cat or tri. If I was going to sail in the Bahamas, then yes a multihull would be the way to go, to cross the Pacific, probably not.

Well, if shallow draft or less heeling is important ... I think the heeling part is quite important as well because it makes a lot of what you do on the boat more difficult and less comfortable to do.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by kiwin

to cross the Pacific, probably not.

Have you crossed the Pacific?



Roly, roly. I kinda persuaded friends to go to the Pacific on their mono. Their main comments back were that the passages, primarily downwind, were "too" roly and the swell in anchorages made their time there much more uncomfortable than I had lead them to believe. Roly passages or uncomfortable anchorages had never occurred to me as being an issue.


Cats are more expensive and harder to sail well, but down wind you can fly a table cloth and still make good speed.

[Sand crab]

Actually cats are easier to sail. No heel, no roll, wide decks, twin engines, etc.