Performance of charter cats?

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

They do go to windward better because of their dagger boards but they are by no means in the same performance class as Outremers and the like. But then you would have to like sitting at exposed helms along with the other ergonomic drawbacks of these types of boats. In fact if you charter a Catana for a week and the weather is inclement for that week you will discover how miserable they can be.

Depending on your budget do a two week hire one week on a Catana 47 and one on a Lagoon 46 see what you think then.

I don't know how did you come to this conclusion between Outremer and Catana. I own a Catana and sailed extensively with a Outremer 51. Outremer had a carbon sails and revolving mast, mine doesn't have. We also amically raced several times against and their performance was almost equal. Allbeit 51 ft , the Outremer cabins are by far smaller than those of Catana which is also smaller than Lagoon 46 for example. Catana has only one problem;helm station from where you cannot see the opposite corner at all. This is not an issue in open sea but a real headack in crowded places. The semi elevated helm station of Outremer is much better. Regarding Lagoons, they are not even close to these two boats not only from sailing capability point of view but also from built quality stand point as well. If you want to sleep on a larger bed at the expense of having to motor 80% of the time, I agree with you, Lagoons are better. But on the other hand, if you are not going to sail, Bali's are even better than Lagoons

Cheers

Yeloya

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by yeloya

I don't know how did you come to this conclusion between Outremer and Catana. I own a Catana and sailed extensively with a Outremer 51. Outremer had a carbon sails and revolving mast, mine doesn't have. We also amically raced several times against and their performance was almost equal. Allbeit 51 ft , the Outremer cabins are by far smaller than those of Catana which is also smaller than Lagoon 46 for example. Catana has only one problem;helm station from where you cannot see the opposite corner at all. This is not an issue in open sea but a real headack in crowded places. The semi elevated helm station of Outremer is much better. Regarding Lagoons, they are not even close to these two boats not only from sailing capability point of view but also from built quality stand point as well. If you want to sleep on a larger bed at the expense of having to motor 80% of the time, I agree with you, Lagoons are better. But on the other hand, if you are not going to sail, Bali's are even better than Lagoons

Cheers

Yeloya

Haha! I have been on several janky poor build quality Catanas. They have a cult following but damn, they sure fall a part.

[singlespeed]

Voyage catamaran are much quicker than the usual ho hum charter vessels. t voyages below 45' have a low bridgedeck, which can be noisy and jarring.

[HuffinPuff]

Originally Posted by yeloya

I don't know how did you come to this conclusion between Outremer and Catana. I own a Catana and sailed extensively with a Outremer 51. Outremer had a carbon sails and revolving mast, mine doesn't have. We also amically raced several times against and their performance was almost equal. Allbeit 51 ft , the Outremer cabins are by far smaller than those of Catana which is also smaller than Lagoon 46 for example. Catana has only one problem;helm station from where you cannot see the opposite corner at all. This is not an issue in open sea but a real headack in crowded places. The semi elevated helm station of Outremer is much better. Regarding Lagoons, they are not even close to these two boats not only from sailing capability point of view but also from built quality stand point as well. If you want to sleep on a larger bed at the expense of having to motor 80% of the time, I agree with you, Lagoons are better. But on the other hand, if you are not going to sail, Bali's are even better than Lagoons

Cheers

Yeloya

Hey, I have a bali and sail it often. It's only when the wind is less than 45 or less than 10 knots do I run the motors

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by HuffinPuff

Hey, I have a bali and sail it often. It's only when the wind is less than 45 or less than 10 knots do I run the motors

Like I said Catana owners can be a bit cultish. They have to badmouth other brands to make themselves feel better when their Catana fails a survey multiple times.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by dcondit

I’ve sailed many of the production cats out there. I’m not sure what FP did with this model, but my experience on multiple trips is that the Astra 42 is about as bad as it gets for sailing performance. It tacks like a shipping container and is very difficult to keep up to speed. I’ve had no similar problems with the newer FP 40s, 45s and 47s.

Agree the FP Astrea and the Lagoon 39 is about as worse it can get. Houseboat but sails are decoration...Official the worst of all, FP sanoa 47ft is lala, Bali come quite after that.

Others are much better performing, FP Helia 44 or Lipari 41 for newer ones. Best sailing FP are old FP Belize 43 and the FP40 Lavezzi. Would say they are the "performance" of mass production french ones.
i have a FP Lavezzi has 8.5t with all gear liveaboard that sails 4kn with 7kn of wind and can do 9kn with 15kn on beam reach. And my sails are not the best anymore.

[smj]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Agree the FP Astrea and the Lagoon 39 is about as worse it can get. Houseboat but sails are decoration...Official the worst of all, FP sanoa 47ft is lala, Bali come quite after that.



Others are much better performing, FP Helia 44 or Lipari 41 for newer ones. Best sailing FP are old FP Belize 43 and the FP40 Lavezzi. Would say they are the "performance" of mass production french ones.

i have a FP Lavezzi has 8.5t with all gear liveaboard that sails 4kn with 7kn of wind and can do 9kn with 15kn on beam reach. And my sails are not the best anymore.

Best sailing FP? Probably the original Louisiane. After that each generation of FP went more towards interior space than performance. I would go for the Casamance/Fidji/Antiqua if looking for a performance cruising FP cat

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by smj

Best sailing FP? Probably the original Louisiane. After that each generation of FP went more towards interior space than performance. I would go for the Casamance/Fidji/Antiqua if looking for a performance cruising FP cat

Belize and Lavezzi are the best performance one you can actually live on, the older are to small inside.
Lavezzi has 92sqm sail area on 8.5t loaded with all gear, thats on border/in performance cat area. With the square top main from Lipari (same hulls and mast/boom but different deck with hard bimini, so 2t heavier) i have over 100sqm sail area on 8.5t.
Hulls are still slim compared to Lagoon and others condomerans.
Belize is even better over 100sqm on 9t...

Casmance is totally scattert up inside, standing heights are 165-170cm, looked at one. Fidiji/Antigua/lousianna is even worse. Maybe sailing a bit better but simply not liveable except you are a dwarft....

[smj]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Belize and Lavezzi are the best performance one you can actually live on, the older are to small inside.
Lavezzi has 92sqm sail area on 8.5t loaded with all gear, thats on border/in performance cat area. With the square top main from Lipari (same hulls and mast/boom but different deck with hard bimini, so 2t heavier) i have over 100sqm sail area on 8.5t.
Hulls are still slim compared to Lagoon and others condomerans.
Belize is even better over 100sqm on 9t...

Casmance is totally scattert up inside, standing heights are 165-170cm, looked at one. Fidiji/Antigua/lousianna is even worse. Maybe sailing a bit better but simply not liveable except you are a dwarft....

All relative isn’t it? Fact is the older generation FP’s were more geared towards performance than the newer models, but that fact runs true with pretty much all manufacturers.
You have to decide your ratio between performance, livability and build quality. In the FP’s I personally wouldn’t want anything newer than the Casamance generation.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Belize and Lavezzi are the best performance one you can actually live on, the older are to small inside.
Lavezzi has 92sqm sail area on 8.5t loaded with all gear, thats on border/in performance cat area. With the square top main from Lipari (same hulls and mast/boom but different deck with hard bimini, so 2t heavier) i have over 100sqm sail area on 8.5t.
Hulls are still slim compared to Lagoon and others condomerans.
Belize is even better over 100sqm on 9t...

Casmance is totally scattert up inside, standing heights are 165-170cm, looked at one. Fidiji/Antigua/lousianna is even worse. Maybe sailing a bit better but simply not liveable except you are a dwarft....

My goodness, those sail areas for such small boats do not do anything about putting them into performance cat territory. The whole point of a cruising performance cat is that it can sail well without a whole lot of sail area. As an example, our 55’ cat has only 122 sqm sail area. And half of our sailing time is spent with the first reef or less.

That said, the new generation of performance cruising cats is quite a bit more powerful than those from the 90s. And with bigger engines, more fuel capacity, taller masts, etc. Not a good trend IMO.

[django37]

As chartercats, the condomarams /Lagoon, FP & Leopards, are all equipped with fixed propellers, bad horisontal cut sails, they are normally overloaded and with dirty bottoms. Performance can be bettered with the right equipment, but not to a performance cat standard.

[HuffinPuff]

Originally Posted by crayiii

Like I said Catana owners can be a bit cultish. They have to badmouth other brands to make themselves feel better when their Catana fails a survey multiple times.

I hope you are not referring to me as I never bad mouth people. I just relay my experiences.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by HuffinPuff

I hope you are not referring to me as I never bad mouth people. I just relay my experiences.

No, not referring to you at all.

[HuffinPuff]

Originally Posted by django37

As chartercats, the condomarams /Lagoon, FP & Leopards, are all equipped with fixed propellers, bad horisontal cut sails, they are normally overloaded and with dirty bottoms. Performance can be bettered with the right equipment, but not to a performance cat standard.

Very true indeed. When I recieved my boat, I couldn't get it over 6.5 knots. Cleaned the bottom and low and behold, I was doing 8 knots. Crazy how that works. Still need to get folding props.

[crayiii]

Originally Posted by django37

As chartercats, the condomarams /Lagoon, FP & Leopards, are all equipped with fixed propellers, bad horisontal cut sails, they are normally overloaded and with dirty bottoms. Performance can be bettered with the right equipment, but not to a performance cat standard.

A comfortable fully equipped cruising cat with custom sails and a skipper that understands sail trim and tactics can be a great thing!