Planning For A Survey?

[Capn Jimbo]

Hard to believe it hasn't yet been posted... but no one has yet posted the one and very best resource: Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" - and - learn his 30 minute self survey down pat.

Do NOT ever plan a trip just to see a single boat, particularly in Florida. Keep in mind that Irma damaged over 10,000 boats.

Almost no brokers are competent or can be trusted.

The beauty of knowing and using Casey's 30 minute self survey (and read the rest, it's very understandable), is that you will save tons of time and money, and quickly narrow it down to the few boats actually worth an offer or survey. Buy a cheap moisture meter (about $40), maybe a battery charge/load tester (about $25), a mirror on a flexible shaft, couple good flashlights. Use your cell phone camera to take plenty of pics. Pair of cheap binoculars to look up the mast. Hull tap with screwdriver handle.

All in Casey's book. A trip to Harbor Freight and Home Depot, maybe $150 for all or much less. Be prepared to walk - a lot. Pictures do and often lie.

If this sounds difficult - it isn't. You will very quickly learn and know more than most of the brokers or owners and spot issues they don't know about or are hiding. Good luck. BTW you can get Casey's book on Kindle for maybe $14.

[Biomed]

Hi Scarlet! There was a thread sometime ago. Lots of very knowledgeable, practical advice from many sources. Also stuff on the famous "standard contract" you are required to sign, and security of earnest money and deposits. Lots of good advice on broker tricks and pitfalls. I have owned boats and was looking in the USA for a suitable trawler. Had some weird experiences with brokers, and thought that I was the odd one out. Until I followed this very informative thread. Huge eye opener. Also dealt with so called bonded brokers, and what this really means in practice in terms of protection for you, the prospective buyer. Not much, it would seem, all the hype and (self) governing "professional" registration bodies, notwithstanding! Perhaps someone on this forum or another one remembers this thread, and can point Scarlet in the right direction, as the thread empowered me. Fair winds!

[meirriba]

Notwithstanding all the good advice here is piece of experience that may be of help.
I was asked to survey an old boat (around 40 years). The buyer agreed with the seller to the following. After the survey, I have asked a boatyard for a quotation to repair all items that were marked must/important on the report (not nice to have items). The agreement was that any amount over x% of the agreed vessel price will be discounted.

[sailcrazy]

Let me suggest that you first rent the boat model-or at least as close as you can get- and take it sailing to be sure it is REALLY the one you want. Once you've IDed a possible purchase, offer a contract with earnest $$, contingent on a personal inspection+survey+trial sail+repairs to anything found+ approved financing....but also include an expiration date for each phase...so both you and the owner are not left hanging. Also, based on personal experience with a Seattle-based well-known broker-know that some brokers will present other offers to a seller AFTER you have submitted your signed offer and cash! My brother just lost on a deal-after he had submitted a signed offer and substantial $$(+10%) to hold it. Once you find what you want you need to be ready to move on it!

[Biomed]

Hi Scarlet, much good advice to start you off, here is another suggestion: D.H Pascoe marine surveyor. Google it and it will direct you to his website. He was active a a marine surveyor for decades and had a heap of articles and books published. Many articles are accessible on his website for free. They are a true treasure trove of valuable information with regard to boat buying, owning, inspection, materials, pitfalls and much more. Very easy and pleasant reading and highly educational and informative. His books are, I believe, still in print and worth every cent. Sadly for us, he is retired. A boat, particularly a larger one, can be a money sinkhole. Much more so than a medium sized or smaller yacht. The lessons taught by David, saved my bacon more than once and taught me much about what makes up a boat, and its acquisition and ownership. Should really be required reading for newbees! When you step into the buyer shoes, you will know what questions to ask and what results are acceptable ito answers from brokers and surveyors, and what is waffle. You will be empowered, forewarned and forearmed. That's a pretty good place to be, when you are starting out!
David has left us with a wealth of his experience and expertise, to put it to good use. My suggestion: check it out, it's free (mostly) and very enjoyable! Fair winds!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by scarlet

We will be starting our official search to purchase a Cataman (home) in about a year. We've made our list of features we want.. we've narrowed our our boat list to 5 models released in specific years. We've saved hard, and have determined our budget range for the purchase, and are excited about getting started.

We live in Kansas, and we, obviously, will have to travel for each and every boat we are interested in. That is fine.. we've planned for it. However, I don't know how to plan for a survey.

So, can someone take me through this? here is the scenario.. We look and find a boat on line that ticks off all our wants/needs. It is in Fort Lauderdale. We arrange for a look-see, and set up our flights. We go see it, and we like it. Now we want it surveyed. Can I get a survey while I am still down there? or does it usually take days or weeks to get one arranged? can I arrange for one before we travel to Fort Lauderdale, then cancel it if we don't like the condition of the boat when we see it?

Should we do a sea trial first before we even think of the survey? Also, could we set up the survey in 2 steps? First have the survey at dock (of all the systems, etc).. and if that checks out THEN set up a second survey to have it hauled out? because, I'm thinking that it doesn't make sense to pay to have a boat hauled out if it doesn't check out to our satisfaction on the "onboard" survey. right? Also, I would definitely want to be there during the survey, so that the surveyor can show me exactly what the problems are. I'm assuming that is allowed.

Also, how do I find a good surveyor? (and not by word of mouth.... ) is there a certification that surveyors are required? is there a review site, or something? would a broker be the best place to find a good surveyor? or perhaps a boat financing company? where do I start? and can we use that person for every survey we do? (understanding that we would need to pay for their travel)...

Am I missing anything?

Broker seems like it could be one hand washes the other. Finance co.? I would ask an insurance carrier. They are in bed with you or at least if they think they will be. JMHO

[JMitchell]

Originally Posted by scarlet

..... However, I don't know how to plan for a survey.

So, can someone take me through this?

Originally Posted by JohnEasley

...... Here's the link: Marine Survey 101 It might help you, too.

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

Hard to believe it hasn't yet been posted... but no one has yet posted the one and very best resource: Don Casey's "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" - and - learn his 30 minute self survey down pat.

.

Scarlet, thank you for the question. I have have been wondering the same.

John & Jimbo, thanks for those links!

[Cheechako]

The only thing I will add is if you can get the owner involved at any stage you will learn a lot. Often owners say too much.... which is good for the buyer. I have even noted the name and address of the owner off the registration cert. during my first visit to the boat. Call him and nicely ask questions... again... he may say too much. :>)

[jharding]

after learning as much as you can and doing your own thorough inspection and then have a survey, if boat is still what you want I would definitely have an engine and rigging survey. a lot of money can be spent in both areas and survey will find deficiencies and give you more bargaining power, especially rigging on a cat. I've had many dock neighbors with cats only 5 years old with cracked rigging terminals. They spent a lot of money replacing rigging.

[sailcrazy]

Sorry-forgot to include this in my earlier response. Regarding surveyors.....we always look for a SAMS-certified surveyor. From our experience, that has always resulted in someone who knows what they're doing, and their report is always accepted by insurance or other agencies.

[Dulcesuenos]

Make sure any surveyor you use holds sams or Nams current accreditation. You can check this at the Sam's or nams websites. There's a surveyor or 2 in Florida that don't or lost theirs due to unethical behavior. Also make sure the surveyor gives you a written contract to survey, and that they carry errors and omissions Insurance.

[mark_morwood]

It's not clear, but it doesn't sound like you quite trust your broker, as they should be answering all of this for you. Having a buying broker who you trust can help a lot, particularly as someone new to the market and process. They know the tricks and pitfalls, and have a good feel for the reliability of info you are getting from other brokers. They also can often have a different sort of conversation with the selling broker to get a quick feel of where the deal is likely to end up.

When we were buying our first catamaran (3rd big boat), we were lucky to work with a buying broker who we trusted, and had been a cruiser with young family himself. It was partly because I first met him as a fellow sailor rather than as a broker that we built that trust. I first met him anchored in Bermuda when he was helping deliver a catamaran for a client because he liked to keep sailing, and offered to show me over it when I explained my wife and I were just starting a search. He then became a trusted advisor in the purchase process. The right broker will also know the cruising catamaran market well and be able to give you advice on different boats and trade-offs between them, before you even go see them. Also help you balance different priorities. He certainly helped us clarify our requirements and make a good choice.

We treated him as an advisor/consultant in the search. We'd email back and forth on boats as they came on the market, or he heard about them about to come on the market. The boat we finally bought, we both saw pop up on the market mid-week, discussed it that night, had him talk with the selling broker to get an idea of the state etc, then we both flew to see it that weekend, and we made an offer (conditional on survey etc) the next Monday. It took a couple of weeks to then get to the final price. By that point we had been working together for about a year looking at different boats.

Even though in the US a buying broker doesn't cost you anything extra, I would still approach the choice of buying broker as if you were spending significant money on them. Do not be afraid to be picky. If I were you, I'd spend some time on that selection, before spending money on going to see any particular boats.

I'm sure there are quite a few good brokers in the US. The one I know and would recommend is Derek Escher at Just Catamarans. I think he is still based in New England, though the company is in FL. You may well have to find one outside of Kansas to get someone who really knows the cruising catamaran market, even though that means you will be working with him/her remotely.

Good luck with the search. It can get very frustrating at times, but it is all worth it in the end.

[Drmanso]

Originally Posted by JohnEasley

When we went back to take a serious look at what turned out to be our first large boat, we didn't know what questions to ask or what to look at. We contacted a respected local broker and arranged to pay him for an hour's time to come with us. He didn't do anything intrusive and the boat stayed in the water but he sat in the engine room for a while, opened all of the bilge access panels, etc. His opinion gave us a bit more confidence in making an offer.

That being said, we probably wouldn't do that again. We've learned a tremendous amount over the last few years and a member of this forum, who is a professional surveyor, has produced a step-by-step guide with photos on exactly what to look for, what to walk away from, etc. It's a mini-education in itself. We have made extensive use of the concepts he detailed in his guide in our continuing search for our next boat. It has given us a lot of confidence in knowing when to walk away and what information to give a surveyor when proceeding further. Here's the link: Marine Survey 101 It might help you, too.

Please give us the link
Thanks

[JMitchell]

Originally Posted by Drmanso

Please give us the link
Thanks

Its there, just click on the blue words that say "Marine survey 101"

[thinwater]

This is a multi-6-figure purchase, and is more complex than a house. As others have said, don't even think of buying while you are there the first time. You can settle the contract over the phone.


Then go down a second time and BE THERE for the survey and sea trial. Even if you don't feel you should say much or even everything, you really need to be part of the process and learn from it. It sounds like the OP is new to these boats.