Plunging boat prices..

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

It's a good deal compared to what you can get new for $35K!

Same in housing. There are houses which sell and the new owner considers it a shell.
Next, they spend more on upgrades than the original selling price.
The new value is more than the total spent.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by yeloya

High demand following the Covid which resulted in astronomical price increases both on new and 2nd hand boats, nowadays the demand, thus the prices are plunging. The cat yards who were delivering in one or two years can deliver boats with very short lead times and reduced prices. Well, they don't reduce the list prices but are increasing the discounts. I basically follow the trend on cats but monos are in the same situation. Obviously this trend on new boat prices have impacted the second hand prices as well.

For anyone who has cash in hand, this could be a good opportunity..

Cheers

Yeloya

MarineMax, a publicly traded company and therefore with public financial records, shows 2023 with strong revenues - up 4% for the year. Forecast for 2024 is about the same. Margins are up.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20231025699051/en/MarineMax-Reports-Fiscal-2023-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-Results/

Brunswick corporation splits their financial reporting and showed a 22% decline in boat sales for fiscal 2023. They are forecasting 2024 to be flat.

https://www.brunswick.com/news/press-releases/detail/836/brunswick-corporation-releases-2023-fourth-quarter-full

[Fore and Aft]

I am not seeing it down under. Definitely project boats are getting harder to sell, but decent condition cats and monos are still selling in a reasonable time. It's been a long time since I have heard of anyone getting a discount without it being related to the boats condition.
Cheers

[CarlF]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

An oddity I can't quite explain is what I call "climate change" with regard to when people launch and haulout their boats here in New England. Boats go in later and later each year, myself included. I always used to be launched before May 1 and would proceed to my mooring where there were already lots of boats in the water. Now, nobody is launched before May, and many don't go in until June. Last June we took a two-week cruise around southern New England and harbors were deserted, and some waterfront businesses weren't even open. Then in the fall I start to see boats come out of the water in September--again, in the past we never hauled until late October, early November. Transient harbors become deserted again around the middle of September. Not sure what is causing this. Aging owners?

It’s windier in the Spring and Fall in New England. A warmer atmosphere has more energy so generates more wind and storms.

A boatyard owner told me that 20 years ago it was easy to step masts in April, now you have to be well into May to find enough calm days to use the crane. And I used to go south in October (stopping at the Annapolis Boat Show). Now I leave by September 15th to not get caught by the first fall/winter gales off New Jersey.

You notice it especially in June when sailors who struggled to get their boat ready by Memorial Day find that 3 out of the 4 June weekends aren’t nice enough to take the family out.

[Island Time O25]

When I was a member of a sailing club in the late 1990s most members had a goal/dream of owning in few years. But the current members seldom aspire to boat ownership, most are happy to just use the club's boats. The costs of ownership make it difficult to justify going from "pay as you use" at the sailing clubs to "pay 24/7 but use as the weather permits" when one owns.

My first boat, a 27 footer, cost me in 2006 in annual expenses about what a 25-30 foot membership in the club would cost for a season, may be even less. So it made sense to own. Today the club fees are up may be 50% but the ownership costs are up 200+%. Not to mention the used boat prices as well as boatyard repair and maintenance fees. Don't have to be a financial wizard to figure out the consequences.

IMO, the club prices have not kept up with inflation due to the slack demand. Many dreamers join but few continue after a season or two. And on the other side of the equation the dockage and marina space is being squeezed out by the developers, EPA rules and whatnot. Sailing is going the way of horse riding - a limited (and expensive) activity for the truly committed to the activity.

[Kettlewell]

One huge problem I see here on the East Coast, and particularly in New England, is that the desire for big cats has far outpaced the facilities where they can be docked and hauled out. They just aren't building many new marinas, and the old ones just can't handle the cats. I was talking to a guy hauled out next to me and with his 24-foot beam he was having a devil of a time finding a boatyard that could haul him in Lake Michigan, which is where he recently moved to. So far he had no luck in finding such a place and so was considering downsizing and going back to a mono. Even moorings are problematic. The mooring fields are full and not expanding, and it's the last refuge for many avid boaters who just can't afford slip spaces. Plus, in many cases the moorings are not suitable for the space taken up by big cats. The boatyard where I haulout can handle some pretty big cats, and I would guess that they take up close to 30% of the yard space now, reducing the number of boats that can be hauled. Of course they pay twice the normal rate, so the boatyard still makes out.

[mvweebles]

Biggest threat to dock space isn't developers. It's simply that it's a lot easier to build 100 boats than it is to build a marina to slip them. Classic Supply/Demand squeeze that's not lost on Safe Harbor investors I'm sure.

CF is a crazy forum. Handwringing over stuff that just isn't happening. Covid froth may be off the market but that doesn't mean it's a buyers market. Or how no one cruises anymore yet anchorages are full and transient space is difficult to come by in desirable locations --- and dang expensive when you do find a transient slip.

[chris.burcher]

No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

A fast and dramatic 25% increase followed by a 10% decrease is still a dramatic increase.

[zachduckworth]

In SoCal a slip in a decent marina for a 30’ boat is $500. When I asked around back East in NC and southern Chesapeake last year it was half that. Which is why I plan to retire there.
I have heard that used boat prices are going down around here. But about two years ago there was a post filled with melodramatic anguish by a dude who thought he’d never be able to afford a boat because the used ones were so expensive.
Now they are dropping and are affordable.
The key to happiness perhaps is to realize that things change, death and taxes are the only certainties, and if you prioritize something and work towards it, like boat ownership, anyone can make it happen, at least in the US.

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

One huge problem I see here on the East Coast, and particularly in New England, is that the desire for big cats has far outpaced the facilities where they can be docked and hauled out. They just aren't building many new marinas, and the old ones just can't handle the cats. I was talking to a guy hauled out next to me and with his 24-foot beam he was having a devil of a time finding a boatyard that could haul him in Lake Michigan, which is where he recently moved to. So far he had no luck in finding such a place and so was considering downsizing and going back to a mono. Even moorings are problematic. The mooring fields are full and not expanding, and it's the last refuge for many avid boaters who just can't afford slip spaces. Plus, in many cases the moorings are not suitable for the space taken up by big cats. The boatyard where I haulout can handle some pretty big cats, and I would guess that they take up close to 30% of the yard space now, reducing the number of boats that can be hauled. Of course they pay twice the normal rate, so the boatyard still makes out.

Can't believe anyone in New England wants to sail a cat. I took my cat 'down east' as I think the locals call it and I don't think a day went by without catching a lobster pot. Really difficult to avoid when they are spread all throughout entrance channels and you have two hulls. Miss it with one and you'll catch it with the other. I spent a lot of time in the water and as I don't carry a wetsuit it was pretty chilly.

[Kettlewell]

I took my cat 'down east' as I think the locals call it and I don't think a day went by without catching a lobster pot.

Down East means the eastern part of Maine. Sailing south of Maine is much easier in terms of lobster pots. But, you're right, modern cats are lobster trap magnets with their twin saildrives and twin spade rudders hanging down.

[sw34]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

One huge problem I see here on the East Coast, and particularly in New England, is that the desire for big cats has far outpaced the facilities where they can be docked and hauled out. They just aren't building many new marinas, and the old ones just can't handle the cats. I was talking to a guy hauled out next to me and with his 24-foot beam he was having a devil of a time finding a boatyard that could haul him in Lake Michigan, which is where he recently moved to. So far he had no luck in finding such a place and so was considering downsizing and going back to a mono. Even moorings are problematic. The mooring fields are full and not expanding, and it's the last refuge for many avid boaters who just can't afford slip spaces. Plus, in many cases the moorings are not suitable for the space taken up by big cats. The boatyard where I haulout can handle some pretty big cats, and I would guess that they take up close to 30% of the yard space now, reducing the number of boats that can be hauled. Of course they pay twice the normal rate, so the boatyard still makes out.

I am in full agreement with this. I recently purchased a cat that will spend at least two summer seasons in New England. We called every marina that was accessible with our air draft between southern CT and Boston and most didn't even have a spot we could fit, the ones that did had long wait lists. Two offered us a mooring as an option.

We knew it would be challenging, but we had/have a private mooring we can use as a backup so we went ahead with the purchase anyway, and will be on that mooring for the summer.

I didn't expect it to be easy but not as bad as it was. I expected some of the marina's to at least offer space, knowing it could easily be in the $300+/ft range for the summer season which is more that we would have been willing to pay.

Also as mentioned not a lot of haulout options, although we have at least three within a few hours sail, one within an hour of us.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

This was my first thought, too. Demand for dock space around here is still unbelievably high. The "money is no object" crowd is dominating the market. The boats showing up in the newly-rented or -bought slips are mostly high-end show boats.

I don't see this trend reversing, short of a major economic downturn. There are more people, with more money, every day. Slips are virtually impossible to build, and existing marinas are being torn down to make way for waterfront condos.

The marinas around Beaufort, NC are being sold. 5 years ago you could have bought a 40’ slip for around $15k. Now if you are lucky to find one available it’s around $75!

[Slovak]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

This appears to be the case. We just saw the first quarter production numbers from Amel, and they are still selling the Amel 50 and Amel 60 as fast as they can build them. You would not be getting any fire sale discounts from them.

Curious where you are obtaining the specific production numbers.

[26N80W]

Where is here?