Plunging boat prices..

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by purvisgs

prices of used monohulls & motor yachts are not very relevant...


I agree the high(er) range/ 'catamaran lifestyle' boats have come down significantly enough to take notice, but that's only from the peak.


I can't say that (in the more modest "specific multihull boats that interest me" category) prices nor volume(availability) - have come back to the pre 2019 levels. Ask/sold prices still average 10-15% higher than pre covid if I had to throw a number out randomly

I'm not sure how that even makes any sense? Used monohulls still (and for a long time to come) will make up the majority of the used boat market. If anything, Catamarans are less relevant an indicator of the market, They are still "edge" I would however expect their pice behaviour to signal things to come later to the mainstream market. As Cats are significantly more expensive than monohulls, I would expect to see their prices drop first and faster than the rest of the market.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Not relevant to whom? It's certainly relevant to me .

Yeah that was a weird statement when 95% of the boats for sale are used. New boats are a trickle into an ocean of existing boats. Likewise catamarans are a tiny fraction of the boats out there, new catamarans are a niche of a niche.

[Kettlewell]

Not sure what it means, but in Narragansett Bay nobody has been launched. Boatyards are full of boats still with the plastic on. Currently anchred by myself. Not one mooring occupied here. Did not see a single sailboat on the water for four hours today. Saw a handful of small powerboats. Beautiful day too.

[gordonhinds]

I bought a yacht about three years ago - if it’s like anything else I buy then the market is soon to collapse and boats will be relatively worthless…

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Yeah that was a weird statement when 95% of the boats for sale are used. New boats are a trickle into an ocean of existing boats. Likewise catamarans are a tiny fraction of the boats out there, new catamarans are a niche of a niche.

That statements make sense if you consider the multihull and mono markets to be disconnected.

This is a post in the multi forum so to me it makes sense.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by rabbi

That statements make sense if you consider the multihull and mono markets to be disconnected.

This is a post in the multi forum so to me it makes sense.

Cat its is still empty below 500k, above a bit better. Just not everything sells like it was 2-3 years ago but if you looking for decent/good that's the case.
Buddy of mine is searching since 1 year 44 til 50ft performance oriented, if possible with daggerboard in 400 till 800k and couldn't find anything till now that's a good deal. He found some at first glance awesome ones but all off them had a deal breaker...

Mono is a totally different game...there is plenty.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Not sure what it means, but in Narragansett Bay nobody has been launched. Boatyards are full of boats still with the plastic on. Currently anchred by myself. Not one mooring occupied here. Did not see a single sailboat on the water for four hours today. Saw a handful of small powerboats. Beautiful day too.

It's been a slow launching season here (Southern Lake Ontario) as well. The weather has been pretty bad for this far into spring though. More boats then usual went in early April, but launching has been slow since then. It's picking up a bit now, but it seems like a lot of people just aren't ready to go yet.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Not sure what it means, but in Narragansett Bay nobody has been launched. Boatyards are full of boats still with the plastic on...

That was us here until maybe a week ago. Now with the Memorial Day weekend looming, things have really picked up. Most of the shrink wrap is off, and the storage yard is emptying fast. People are around, cleaning and prepping their boats.

My take is that it's going to be a very busy season, albeit a slower start than past years. It's hard to know what to attribute that to. Weather here hasn't been particularly bad, compared to usual. I think it's just fewer cruisers and more weekenders. Put another way, more money. The barrier to entry is much higher than it used to be, and it's more of a hobby than a lifestyle to those who can afford boats these days.

[Kettlewell]

Now with the Memorial Day weekend looming, things have really picked up

.
Now anchored inside Cuttyhunk Pond all by myself. One other boat on rental mooring. Four boats outside. Very strange. One thing I see happening is the continued aging out of cruisers with very few younger people starting out. At my boatyard it's mostly the same people I've been seeing for the last 15 years. The other day I did notice a younger couple in their 50s.

[Katapult Mike]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Yeah that was a weird statement when 95% of the boats for sale are used. New boats are a trickle into an ocean of existing boats. Likewise catamarans are a tiny fraction of the boats out there, new catamarans are a niche of a niche.

I thought it was a weird statement also…..and then I realized I was in the Multihull Forum. That made it seem less weird. It is true that mutihull prices may not be directly correlated to monohulls or power boats.

[Symphony]

New and used catamaran prices are indeed related to and connected to new and used monohull prices. Monohull prices have been dropping as we all know, while catamaran prices decline only a little.

Catamarans, which are more expensive to build for a given size, are price-supported by the booming charter business; there is nothing better suited for making a good return on capital than a new four-bedroom four- bath air conditioned catamaran, whether or not it can sail to weather or handle adverse weather. (I’m not saying all catamarans are like this, but models maximized for chartering are indeed like this e.g. Bali 40)

I have sailed several thousand miles on both types of boat, and each has their advantages and disadvantages. For a lot of people, the benefits of a cat are worth more money, and it sometimes they seem to be worth a lot more money, but there comes a point when either one boat increases in price or the other boat drops in price so much that there will be a normalization of this price spread.

There might be a time when Caribbean charters are not quite so profitable, in which case there are a lot of used charter boats to come onto the market. Charter boats often sell at depressed price usually due to condition.

As I shop for a boat I consider the relative value, price, and operating expense/ dockage of cats AND monos that can satisfy my boating Mission.
FWIW
Happy shopping

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Symphony

New and used catamaran prices are indeed related to and connected to new and used monohull prices. Monohull prices have been dropping as we all know, while catamaran prices decline only a little.

Catamarans, which are more expensive to build for a given size, are price-supported by the booming charter business; there is nothing better suited for making a good return on capital than a new four-bedroom four- bath air conditioned catamaran, whether or not it can sail to weather or handle adverse weather. (I’m not saying all catamarans are like this, but models maximized for chartering are indeed like this e.g. Bali 40)

I have sailed several thousand miles on both types of boat, and each has their advantages and disadvantages. For a lot of people, the benefits of a cat are worth more money, and it sometimes they seem to be worth a lot more money, but there comes a point when either one boat increases in price or the other boat drops in price so much that there will be a normalization of this price spread.

There might be a time when Caribbean charters are not quite so profitable, in which case there are a lot of used charter boats to come onto the market. Charter boats often sell at depressed price usually due to condition.

As I shop for a boat I consider the relative value, price, and operating expense/ dockage of cats AND monos that can satisfy my boating Mission.
FWIW
Happy shopping

Don‘t see cat prices declining, only the rubbish that sold before too is going down slightly.
Good cats price stay or a little lower now to get rid of before hurricane in Caribbean as it’s cheaper to give a bit discount then pay for hurricane storage but that’s it. 2 friends on mine are on the cat hunt since a year and everyone that was acceptable and seem to be ok had a show stopper in the end. One is thinking buying new now but also slots are booked.


Mono is very different, also top boats are cheap and available.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Symphony

New and used catamaran prices are indeed related to and connected to new and used monohull prices. Monohull prices have been dropping as we all know, while catamaran prices decline only a little.

The market of affordable multis (200-400k €) has seen a steady increase in prices at least since I follow it (around 2009).
Yes, there is / was a slight drop from the covid peak but lets face it: Prices have dropped maybe 10% after a 30% spike.


No wonder since an "entry level cat" today is around 450k incl VAT. About 15 years ago it was like half of that.
With no affordable cats entering the market the old ones hold their value very well.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by rabbi

The market of affordable multis (200-400k €) has seen a steady increase in prices at least since I follow it (around 2009).
Yes, there is / was a slight drop from the covid peak but lets face it: Prices have dropped maybe 10% after a 30% spike.


No wonder since an "entry level cat" today is around 450k incl VAT. About 15 years ago it was like half of that.
With no affordable cats entering the market the old ones hold their value very well.

Exactly and in this area you also have a significant number of lemons...in covid time even they sold, thats whats not sold nowadays but good cats it is still a sellers market and go above asking to get it....my friend just made an offer above asking on a catana431 and still wasn't accepted. That is priced in the top end but with average condition...simply nothing comparable on the market

[Symphony]

more statistics from YATCO

May 2024 compared to May 2023
610 New Listings UP 51%
122 Sold DOWN 30%
590 Price reducts UP 36%

compared to April 2024 - the price reductions are working as a more vessels were sold and reduced the inventory. Brokers and seller noticed this and so price reductions increased to generate more sales.

Compare May 2024 to February...

February 2024
414 New Listings UP 50% from year before
100 Sold DOWN 25% from year before
438 Price reduces. UP 39% from year before

FWIW