Prices coming down?

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I don't know about that; many millenials and Gen Z have adopted a new urban and often car-less lifestyle, enough to drive gentrification, more urban parks, bike lanes, better public transport, reinvestment in urban schools... and this new cohort draws in many small businesses and services to support them.

A redeveloped and more livable urban core is also attractive to seniors. The suburbs by contrast are isolating.

Then again, the explosion of work-from-home means that smaller, more affordable but vibrant cities would be very attractive.

Caveat - my experience is mainly with larger Canadian and European cities. I have little experience with cities where divisions are more stark and entrenched.

The scary thing is for a lot of industries whether you are in New Jersey or New Delhi makes no difference. This was happening before covid 19 but it's more obvious now how much can be done remotely.

I can only speak for the design/architecture industry. Before the Crisis we were already outsourcing a lot of high level computer modeling work to india(english being the official language of the country), a very large proportion of the industry is doing this. Much of the industry will be working from home until next summer. I just wonder how long until the industry realizes more work can be outsourced overseas. The troubling thing is like Seawind has found with its factory in Vietnam, the quality of work is in most cases is better and faster.

As someone mentioned in the other thread there is a bandwidth revolution going on. The initial reaction will be protectionism and isolationism but in the long run we really need to recognize it and embrace it and navigate our way through it.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I don't know about that; many millenials and Gen Z have adopted a new urban and often car-less lifestyle, enough to drive gentrification, more urban parks, bike lanes, better public transport, reinvestment in urban schools... and this new cohort draws in many small businesses and services to support them.

A redeveloped and more livable urban core is also attractive to seniors. The suburbs by contrast are isolating.

Then again, the explosion of work-from-home means that smaller, more affordable but vibrant cities would be very attractive.

Caveat - my experience is mainly with larger Canadian and European cities. I have little experience with cities where divisions are more stark and entrenched.

I have no idea if you are correct or not however it sounds like we gave up our manufacturing to become a service economy and we are ow going to give up the service industry to become a ....

[Bigmarv]

Originally Posted by Orson

Hi Dale (I hope I have that right)!


I’m yet to read discussion, much less recognition, of all these positive Trumpian political effects flowing back into rebalancing corrupted US politics, downstream in cultural change from the synergies of properly managing this external shock of the CCP virus crisis. It ain’t no old fashioned Cold War like George Kennan’s 45 years of containment, either"

Breathtaking ingenuity, is it not? Trump and Pompeo have decided to back Chinese dissidents over Hong Kong and “Go for broke,” as Solomon Yue puts it, and kill the global menace of the CCP! (See his recent Epoch Times, American Though Leaders interview on YouTube.)

Bold! Amazing. Confounding. “I never though of that!” Stupefying! Genius if it works...(True - conditions are attached.) All of these, risky, grandiose implications.... And so many “smart” people laugh at Trump... LOL!

I enjoyed this post tremendously. More, please.

[Creedence]

Originally Posted by Yihang

The scary thing is for a lot of industries whether you are in New Jersey or New Delhi makes no difference. This was happening before covid 19 but it's more obvious now how much can be done remotely.

I can only speak for the design/architecture industry. Before the Crisis we were already outsourcing a lot of high level computer modeling work to india(english being the official language of the country), a very large proportion of the industry is doing this. Much of the industry will be working from home until next summer. I just wonder how long until the industry realizes more work can be outsourced overseas. The troubling thing is like Seawind has found with its factory in Vietnam, the quality of work is in most cases is better and faster.

As someone mentioned in the other thread there is a bandwidth revolution going on. The initial reaction will be protectionism and isolationism but in the long run we really need to recognize it and embrace it and navigate our way through it.

I’m glad to see someone else acknowledging this. I’m hearing people claim the Covid issue is helping employers realize they can function just fine with their workers remote, and its being sold as a positive development.

No one is yet discussing (your post is an exception), the fact that employers will soon realize that in many (most?) cases, remote employees need not even be US citizens. With the popularity of the H1B visa program, we already see there’s an appetite for lower cost foreign labor, but in this case, there’s really no barrier.


We’re already talking as though we’re in a recession (although it seems to only be impacting a specific segment of the population today). What happens if employers begin outsourcing our new remote positions?

And the last thing worth thinking about: We have been in the midst of the “Everything bubble” since around 2010, and much of that is attributed to easy access to finance. Now, due to the issues relating to Covid, banks are reducing their risk exposure by tightening lending standards, no longer issuing HELOCs, no longer issuing loans on other certain assets.

I once saw a dog for sale at a pet store for $6,500. As I was about to respond to the absurd asking price, the sales kid says they offer a great financing plan.

Debt allows an asset’s price to disconnect from its value. What happens when finance options are taken off the table AND remote jobs are outsourced?

I’m not saying it WILL happen, but from my perch, it certainly appears as though it COULD happen.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Creedence

No one is yet discussing (your post is an exception), the fact that employers will soon realize that in many (most?) cases, remote employees need not even be US citizens.

Where you been? Outsourcing of manufacturing from N. America has been strong for maybe 50+ years, and i personally know that outsourcing of data, programming and IT services has been steady for 20 years.

And the last thing worth thinking about: We have been in the midst of the “Everything bubble” since around 2010, and much of that is attributed to easy access to finance. Now, due to the issues relating to Covid, banks are reducing their risk exposure by tightening lending standards, no longer issuing HELOCs, no longer issuing loans on other certain assets.

I can remember, not that many years back, the prediction of economic doom because new car sales weren't increasing by 5+% a year. We have a mainly consumer economy that relies on everyone buying stuff.

We all seem to agree that the bottom economic tier (low wage earners, the young starting out) are the ones taking the COVID economic hit while those of us with income and assets are toy-shopping and moaning about not finding bargain boats.

A deep recession will be avoided if we can keep people living normal lives and buying stuff. Enough with the QE, put more of the budgeted aid into the hands of those who actually need help now, and who are going to spend on goods and services.

We should also be doing more public works projects and cleanups at this time; if government money needs to be shovelled out to keep people working, we should at least have something to show for it.

[Creedence]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Where you been? Outsourcing of manufacturing from N. America has been strong for maybe 50+ years, and i personally know that outsourcing of data, programming and IT services has been steady for 20 years.

I can remember, not that many years back, the prediction of economic doom because new car sales weren't increasing by 5+% a year. We have a mainly consumer economy that relies on everyone buying stuff.

We all seem to agree that the bottom economic tier (low wage earners, the young starting out) are the ones taking the COVID economic hit while those of us with income and assets are toy-shopping and moaning about not finding bargain boats.

A deep recession will be avoided if we can keep people living normal lives and buying stuff. Enough with the QE, put more of the budgeted aid into the hands of those who actually need help now, and who are going to spend on goods and services.

We should also be doing more public works projects and cleanups at this time; if government money needs to be shovelled out to keep people working, we should at least have something to show for it.

Oh believe me, I agree with you that outsourcing has been a contentious issue for decades. That led the transition of our production economy to a service economy that produces significantly less in terms of materiel output.

The thing I'm not yet seeing discussed widely YET is how this remote environment from covid will embolden employers to begin offshoring those jobs that have been safe from outsourcing in the pre-covid world. There is a big distinction that should be recognized there because it could greatly accelerate the offshoring of jobs at a pace we've never yet seen.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Creedence

Oh believe me, I agree with you that outsourcing has been a contentious issue for decades. That led the transition of our production economy to a service economy that produces significantly less in terms of materiel output.

The thing I'm not yet seeing discussed widely YET is how this remote environment from covid will embolden employers to begin offshoring those jobs that have been safe from outsourcing in the pre-covid world. There is a big distinction that should be recognized there because it could greatly accelerate the offshoring of jobs at a pace we've never yet seen.

Between outsourcing, and automation - of both manufacturing (robotics) and service (software, AI) we in the west are going to start running out of decent jobs for everyone that wants one. COVID-19 has probably given that a big push.

We are soon going to need to preserve jobs - subsidize new industries, bribe companies to stay put, roll out public works projects... or decide that something like a Basic Personal Income is justified, which finally recognizes work that previously was 'free' (volunteering, home care of seniors, raising kids, etc), and then jobs pay on top of BPI.

[Piscis]

It just seems to be quite some movement on catamaran pricing on the market. Especially DYC has a few price reductions on some interesting boats. As well some boats in SE Asia on very competetive prices.


2013 Lagoon 400S2 reduced by 15.000€ to 199.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2013...00-s2-3608633/


2012 Lagoon 400 reduced by 25.000€ to 170.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2012...n-400-3700907/


2015 Island Spirit 380 reduced by 30.000US$ to 138.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2015...maran-3500525/


2015 Island Spirit 380 reduced by 30.000US$ to 111.500€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2015...t-380-3242595/


2016 BALI 4.5 reduced by 30.000€ to 299.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2016/bali-45--3652769/


2016 Lagoon 400S2 reduced by 15.200€ to 259.800€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2016...00-s2-3719551/


2016 BALI 4.0 reduced by 33.000€ to 259.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2016/bali-4-0-3659980/



Prices just start comming down.... and this is just a short/quick collection of reduced boats.

However, as long as potential buyers are not able to travel to countries were boats are offered, it doesnt matter how much of discount is offered.

[ranchero76]

It's not even beginning yet. But it's already giving some hints...

[Tenedos]

I have been watching for sailboats and now powerboats in West, Pacific Northwest and Baja California. I haven't seen a meaningful price drop. If anything, the boat market seems still pretty hot.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Piscis

It just seems to be quite some movement on catamaran pricing on the market. Especially DYC has a few price reductions on some interesting boats. As well some boats in SE Asia on very competetive prices.


2013 Lagoon 400S2 reduced by 15.000€ to 199.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2013...00-s2-3608633/


2012 Lagoon 400 reduced by 25.000€ to 170.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2012...n-400-3700907/


2015 Island Spirit 380 reduced by 30.000US$ to 138.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2015...maran-3500525/


2015 Island Spirit 380 reduced by 30.000US$ to 111.500€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2015...t-380-3242595/


2016 BALI 4.5 reduced by 30.000€ to 299.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2016/bali-45--3652769/


2016 Lagoon 400S2 reduced by 15.200€ to 259.800€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2016...00-s2-3719551/


2016 BALI 4.0 reduced by 33.000€ to 259.000€:
https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2016/bali-4-0-3659980/



Prices just start comming down.... and this is just a short/quick collection of reduced boats.

However, as long as potential buyers are not able to travel to countries were boats are offered, it doesnt matter how much of discount is offered.

Common theme of - how can I say it - "less than stellar sailing performance " in that list. In my part of the world, good sailing performance boats are steadily rising in price and good production good performing boats (eg Seawind) are increasing even more

[Heath68]

Originally Posted by Factor

Common theme of - how can I say it - "less than stellar sailing performance " in that list. In my part of the world, good sailing performance boats are steadily rising in price and good production good performing boats (eg Seawind) are increasing even more

Says the Seawind agent [emoji23]

[Piscis]

https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2015/lagoon-39-3727482/

https://www.yachtworld.de/Boote/2014/lagoon-39-3727759/

There is no price reduction on those two Lagoon 39´s. However, i thought it is worth mentioning them.

Lagoon 39´s are many on YW. Those two are a bit different listings. First they are both Owners Versions. The 2015 is still the first owner (i guess never chartered).

And: On both boats VAT is paid already, so if someone is EU citizen and want to keep the boat in Europe, at least for some time, they might be an option.

Looks like very fair asking price!

John

[Piscis]

PS: Portugal has 23% VAT. So you do the math...

[Davy J]

Why do you folks keep dragging these threads out...............

The OP hasn't posted anything in this thread since March of last year.......

His newest thread is about the "asking price" and the "sold price"..........

My guess is that he'll never buy any boat........... He's worried about twelve dollars..........