Prices coming down?

[slug]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Think about the sort of environment and politics extant when all the above companies were founded and grew. Think about all the skilled immigrants who were/are part of the success of those companies. And compare to now.

You can also consider the social structure of western European countries, and, with the embarassing exception of the UK, how their social systems more readily coped with the sudden requirements for aid and support.

Anyway, this is just all wild-assed speculation at this point. We shall see...

What makes you think skilled immigrants will no longer participate in the US economy ?

What makes you think that labour mobility and integration is better in Europe ?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by slug

What makes you think skilled immigrants will no longer participate in the US economy ?

What makes you think that labour mobility and integration is better in Europe ?

...Didn't say there would be NO skilled immigration, but do you think the US is currently more or less welcoming (or attractive) to skilled workers? It will also depend on economic conditions within the US, of course.

Labour mobility is built into the EU. Also, dependence on employer-provided healthcare policies makes labour less mobile within the US.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

...Didn't say there would be NO skilled immigration, but do you think the US is currently more or less welcoming (or attractive) to skilled workers? It will also depend on economic conditions within the US, of course.

Labour mobility is built into the EU. Also, dependence on employer-provided healthcare policies makes labour less mobile within the US.

I’ve lived an worked in Europe for a few decades .... compared to the Us there is very , very little labor mobility ...language and culture

During the pandemic US immigration was closed off for health reasons

After the pandemic , Us immigration will be strictly limited until the old laws are reformed

present laws are no longer fit for purpose in a globalized world

A highly skilled immigrant worker on a temp work visa , must be paid on the same scale as a domestic worker

At present highly skilled immigrants on work visas are treated like indentured servants

This doesn't benefit society or the economy

[Tenedos]

Originally Posted by slug

I’ve lived an worked in Europe for a few decades .... compared to the Us there is very , very little labor mobility ...language and culture

+1 to this. I lived in Europe for more than 10 years and there is almost zero labor mobility, sometimes even between different regions in a country, leave alone between different countries.

That being said, could we maybe take the topic back to the original subject on boat prices?

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

That being said, could we maybe take the topic back to the original subject on boat prices?

Apparently Covid is having a good effect on boat sales in BC (Canada)...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ions-1.5593838

[slug]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

+1 to this. I lived in Europe for more than 10 years and there is almost zero labor mobility, sometimes even between different regions in a country, leave alone between different countries.

That being said, could we maybe take the topic back to the original subject on boat prices?

I think the best boat bargains will be in Europe

If you are in the market keep a sharp lookout

[Piscis]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

That being said, could we maybe take the topic back to the original subject on boat prices?

Good point...

After 4 month of the "Pandemic" (and more likely the negative effects of government overreacting decisions and lockdowns), there are some significant price drops on YW.

As far as the price range I am watching for quite awhile.

The lowest priced Lucia 40 s before CV19 were around 325K€ asking. Now we have a few below 300K. One even for 270K€ and one for 290K asking price before any negotiations. With a little talking and cash in the hand, I would suggest it is possible to get one for under 240K€...

Lagoon 39's and Nautitech Open 40s are listed well below that numbers. Especially the Open 40's seem to be asked for well below the price before CV29 BS....

Asking prices for late Modell Lagoon 400s2 are relatively stable. However, it seems those boats are on YW for almost a year or so. Older Models, like 2012-2014 are reasonably priced, but do not sell as well... Sure, because of the lack of traveling buyers.

The first late Modell Leopards 40 dropping in below 300K€. Not talking about the Intel Marine hurricane damaged offerings, as I don't know how those offers could be compared to non damaged boats.

Some Balis are still offered very well below pre CV19 prices. In Italy and Croatia. We are talking about a 4.0 from 2018, asking 250K€, and a 4.3 for 280K€.

As of what I see on asking prices on YW on the category I am interested in, there is no doubt priced coming down. Not all an every seller, for sure. But I guess others might follow. At least if they want to sell their boats....

John

[mvweebles]

For the folks waiting for covid to crash the yacht market, may want to look at what's happening in the RV market where there are publicly traded companies who report audited earnings.

They are going gangbusters with their highest sales in years.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/deman...162821785.html

You can also track Winnebago (ticker WGO) who is near 52 week highs.

I guess the people who lost their job were not RV buyers. Similar dynamic for yachts I suppose.

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

For the folks waiting for covid to crash the yacht market, may want to look at what's happening in the RV market where there are publicly traded companies who report audited earnings.

They are going gangbusters with their highest sales in years.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/deman...162821785.html

You can also track Winnebago (ticker WGO) who is near 52 week highs.

I guess the people who lost their job were not RV buyers. Similar dynamic for yachts I suppose.

interesting, but confusing.....

Economy in recession, record unemployment, global pandemic etc...soooooo, lets go blow $100-800K on a MOTOR HOME!

I'm on the sidelines watching as events unfold.....IMHO, we are far from being out of the woods. But that's just silly ole me.

I'm certainly no expert, but according to the sales people I've spoken with, including the ones at the last Miami Boat Show, catamarans are at a ridiculous premium. Last year, most cats sold within 8% of asking price. SAME for this year so far! The only difference is that the asking prices have come down a bit...like 3%.

Will see if this holds up. I have my doubts.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Saleen41

Economy in recession, record unemployment, global pandemic etc...soooooo, lets go blow $100-800K on a MOTOR HOME!.

I think it has more to do with the idea of a stay at home (as in the US) vacation. I sold an RV recently and had about 2 dozen inquiries in the first hour. A dealer bought it,. You now have to pay $5 to advertise them on CL btw.

[Barra]

Guys it's still very early days. Boat market has a lag to the economy in every downturn of 6 months and up to a couple of years. I would expect October/ November to start to show where prices are heading.

What has been interesting has been the jump in RV/ caravan demand and smaller boats as people plan for domestic holidays. Seems like thats been developed world wide. If you were wanting to sell it was a golden opportunity not usually available in a recession.

The risk of mass charter boat sales remains very real in the not too distant future too which also makes this downturn a bit different.

Anyway I've bought a caravan instead of a boat this year as we have been told here in Australia at least we aren't leaving the country for holidays till next year. It was definitely a slightly buoyant market but not over the top and no reason to buy RV stocks that's for sure.

[ol1970]

Geez, the stimulus money hasn’t even run out yet for businesses and unemployment checks so of course we are not seeing the pain yet. Prices always lag, I wouldn’t expect to see pricing adjust significantly until next spring. I hope it doesn’t because if it does that means the economy is in the crapper and we still have over 10%+ unemployment.

What sales you are seeing is people realizing you’ll only be able to vacation locally. Plus there is some level of older people saying “the hell with it” and spending money because this has been a slap in the face to their mortality. I sold a six figure classic car at the height of the pandemic with this exact situation.

[Hobie1]

Originally Posted by LeeV

Maybe April if the stars align....

I would set my sights on April 1 [emoji16]

[mvweebles]

Look, I was one of the naysayers based largely on experience during the 2008 housing-crisis fueled bust. Maybe it is a time-will-tell scenario, but also possible that the current trend is indeed different: in 2008, everyone who had a mortgage was clipped hard and the ripple effects into many sectors was deep (FinServ, Consumer, etc.). Very broad based whack to the system. COVID-driven economic impact has been more selective. Many higher paying jobs are transferable to remote working. Unemployment has decimated lower-paying jobs in the service sector. Target market for RV/Yachts in the $200k range have mostly kept their jobs, reduced their expenses, are afraid to take their annual vacations to Disneyworld or Lake of Ozarks (whatever), and have access to very low cost borrowing. Buying a boat/RV suddenly makes a lot of sense to a relatively unaffected group of people with a decent net-worth.

Not me talking - as I mentioned before, these are sales' figures from publicly traded companies in the leisure and recreation industry.

Go figure

Peter

[riki]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

For the folks waiting for covid to crash the yacht market, may want to look at what's happening in the RV market where there are publicly traded companies who report audited earnings.

They are going gangbusters with their highest sales in years.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/deman...162821785.html

You can also track Winnebago (ticker WGO) who is near 52 week highs.

I guess the people who lost their job were not RV buyers. Similar dynamic for yachts I suppose.

If shtf i would rarther be on my boat somewhere than jailed in an apartment in a big town. Rv similar option.