Prout vs Gemini vs PDQ vs Tomcat vs…

[pianopraze]

Compare contrast these small cats, feel free to added other small cats I didn’t list (under or ~ 40’ x 18’ wide) since looks like I have to go used, preferably under 75k insurance limit of some insurance companies.

Absolutely loved my Prout. Will be buying another boat in next year or so. Not many Prouts on the market so might have to branch out. Can’t afford and don’t want those monster cats. My 35’ Snowgoose was perfect size. Easy and forgiving sailing, could beach and clean it, fit in normal size dock, blue water if I ever got up the nerve, lots of room for me, wife, two kids and a dog, less in maintenance and docking than monster cats, etc, etc... first time my wife stepped aboard she got the biggest smile and fell in love (so did I).

So how about Gemini, Tomcat (wife liked the pics of the 970s), PDQ etc?

Why is Prout listed as blue water but not Gemini? Is Tomcat blue water? PDQ?

Which sail better? My Prout didn’t want to sail much in light wind.

Which ones can you beach and clean like my Prout? This was honestly one of the biggest likes - never worried much about shallow water.

Other things I don’t even know to ask?

[thinwater]

I've sailed all of these, but I'd rather not joint the opinion-fest that will soon follow. All will sail better than the Prout in light winds and be more close-winded.


I owned a PDQ 32 that I stretched to 34' and made a few other modifications, (keels, genoa, air conditioning ...). My blog is here:
Sail Delmarva


The PDQs are very sturdy. The Geminis less so, but they have been circumnavigated. The main problem I see is staying under $75K and getting a good boat. The good ones are more, particularly PDQs.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I've sailed all of these, but I'd rather not joint the opinion-fest that will soon follow. All will sail better than the Prout in light winds and be more close-winded.


I owned a PDQ 32 that I stretched to 34' and made a few other modifications, (keels, genoa, air conditioning ...). My blog is here:
Sail Delmarva


The PDQs are very sturdy. The Geminis less so, but they have been circumnavigated. The main problem I see is staying under $75K and getting a good boat. The good ones are more, particularly PDQs.

How did you like the TomCat?

Wife loves those Trampolines, but I loved the deck space and storage lockers on my Prout.

Bookmarked and read a little of your blog. Will read more later. Ty. Wanted to make one of those drogues if I went blue water.

Edit to add, not afraid of working on boat. Bought my Prout at 20k, put new engine, redid all the electrical, took all the bottom paint off, fixed/glassed all the soft spots etc etc.. spent 10-20 k and had wonderful boat and a great time.

[Cpt Mark]

I love my IPY Packet Cat 35. Not many on the market and to stay under 75K, like the others, will mean a boat that needs work.

IPY are built tough and built for blue water. I looked at Gemini and yes, you "could" go around the world but if you run into a bad storm I wouldn't want to be on something like that. Some design issues. The stays landed in the middle of the deck so maneuvering around was tough even in a slip. The batteries were all shoved into a locker, 1 at a time. Servicing was impossible. That owner clued me into these details.

Packet Cat 35 has no trampolines. Instead it has a "delta pod" designed so you won't trip ver a big wave coming down. It is a huge storage area. The engine room I can almost stand up in at 6' and access on all sides is excellent. Standing headroom everywhere.

[smj]

We’ve owned both a Gemini and a PDQ 36. The PDQ is a much higher quality build but in my opinion lacks sail area unless your lucky enough to find one with the tall mast option.
We’ve also owned 2 Seawind 1000’s with 4’ stern extensions. Wonderful catamarans but probably hard to find in the sub $100k range.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

How did you like the TomCat?

Wife loves those Trampolines, but I loved the deck space and storage lockers on my Prout.

Bookmarked and read a little of your blog. Will read more later. Ty. Wanted to make one of those drogues if I went blue water.

Edit to add, not afraid of working on boat. Bought my Prout at 20k, put new engine, redid all the electrical, took all the bottom paint off, fixed/glassed all the soft spots etc etc.. spent 10-20 k and had wonderful boat and a great time.

The Tomcat sailed a lot like the PDQ, maybe a bit more close winded because of the daggerboard. My PDQ was pretty good, because I extended the keel. Stock PDQs have the keel too far forward.


The tramps are popular. They're fun and they save a good bit of weight. The PDQs have very big stern and bow lockers. One own converted two of them to berths ... which I do not suggest, but it indicates the size.


JSDs are very effective, but unless you want to cross an ocean so large that no prediction of a weather window is practical, a single drogue, such as a Seabrake 24, Gale Rider, or Delta Drogue 72 (easy to make) is probably all you need or want. If you want more drag, tandem two > 100' apart.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by smj

We’ve owned both a Gemini and a PDQ 36. The PDQ is a much higher quality build but in my opinion lacks sail area unless your lucky enough to find one with the tall mast option.
We’ve also owned 2 Seawind 1000’s with 4’ stern extensions. Wonderful catamarans but probably hard to find in the sub $100k range.

Yes. The PDQ 32 with genoa can drop a PDQ 36 like a rock. Strange, but true. The 32 was designed after the 36 and has a more modern, functional layout.

[Mountainsailing]

Keep Edels in mind as well. I have a 35, it sails great in light air, and is pretty fast once the breeze picks up a little. It is also the safest boat I have ever sailed as far as deck access goes.

[hurricanehole]

Hi. You don’t say what you intend to do with a different cat. I have the same cat as you. I’m guessing you want a boat that points better than your Prout. Certainly a legitimate desire. If you really like that sailing feeling better go for a monohull. That being said a PDQ or Wharram would be my choices to be looked at.

[cemdev]

following. also interested in the sub 100k cats as it looks like I'll have to self-insure for the first couple of years. From what I've read - nothing but good things about PDQs, Tomcats harder to find but they look great. Geminis everywhere, seem like they likely sail like tanks?

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

I love my IPY Packet Cat 35. Not many on the market and to stay under 75K, like the others, will mean a boat that needs work.

IPY are built tough and built for blue water. I looked at Gemini and yes, you "could" go around the world but if you run into a bad storm I wouldn't want to be on something like that. Some design issues. The stays landed in the middle of the deck so maneuvering around was tough even in a slip. The batteries were all shoved into a locker, 1 at a time. Servicing was impossible. That owner clued me into these details.

Packet Cat 35 has no trampolines. Instead it has a "delta pod" designed so you won't trip ver a big wave coming down. It is a huge storage area. The engine room I can almost stand up in at 6' and access on all sides is excellent. Standing headroom everywhere.

Can you beach and clean them? The Prout was designed for this, how about the Island Packet? Those props and thin rudders wound make me second guess beaching.

I’m 6’4" loved being able to stand in my Prout. That large engine room sounds good. I am fearful of getting an inboard engine because no space to work on so many ships and no redundancy.

I put a new Honda outboard on my Prout. I’m more familiar/comfortable with working on motorcycle and outboard engines… I’ve never even turned a wrench on a diesel. I love look/though those dual Yamaha outboards on the TomCat and the redundancy that could provide.

Again not afraid of putting in the work. The more I worked on my Prout the more I loved her and knew her. Not only does it help you feel comfortable knowing strengths/weaknesses but there is no better way of learning the systems inside out and know what to do when the poop hits the fan.

I see two IP 35 on YW one at 112k, one at 125k. I CAN afford that but insurance and getting a loan become variables. My Prout insurance was 500/year in Florida via progressive/Usaa. I’m sure I’d be in for a much higher premium on a 100k more expensive boat.

[smj]

Originally Posted by cemdev

following. also interested in the sub 100k cats as it looks like I'll have to self-insure for the first couple of years. From what I've read - nothing but good things about PDQs, Tomcats harder to find but they look great. Geminis everywhere, seem like they likely sail like tanks?

If kept light Geminis actually sail pretty well.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by smj

We’ve owned both a Gemini and a PDQ 36. The PDQ is a much higher quality build but in my opinion lacks sail area unless your lucky enough to find one with the tall mast option.
We’ve also owned 2 Seawind 1000’s with 4’ stern extensions. Wonderful catamarans but probably hard to find in the sub $100k range.

Everyone seems to not like the Gemini’s as much. There is a 1 owner for 80k in Florida right now I was considering if it’s still on the market in a few months. Can’t do anything until my lease is up end of January…

There is a Seawind 100 for 200k that looks in great condition. Not sure I could get a loan on that much boat. My wife would probably love it. I really like those two Yamaha outboards.

But could you beach them? Those rudders lift? They look like they would break.

How blue water capable?

[smj]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

Everyone seems to not like the Gemini’s as much. There is a 1 owner for 80k in Florida right now I was considering if it’s still on the market in a few months. Can’t do anything until my lease is up end of January…

There is a Seawind 100 for 200k that looks in great condition. Not sure I could get a loan on that much boat. My wife would probably love it. I really like those two Yamaha outboards.

But could you beach them? Those rudders lift? They look like they would break.

How blue water capable?

Geminis are built to a price point. They have a nice interior layout and draw 18” with centerboards and rudders up so are great gunkholers.
The Seawind is beachable and blue water capable. Huge difference in motion between the original 1000 and the xl or ones 5hat have been extended by the owners.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Mountainsailing

Keep Edels in mind as well. I have a 35, it sails great in light air, and is pretty fast once the breeze picks up a little. It is also the safest boat I have ever sailed as far as deck access goes.

Had never heard of them. Thanks for heads up. Like the look. Looks like it it is built to be able to beach and has dual motors.

Would you feel comfortable crossing Pacific in it?

Wow, maybe a little wide at ~20 feet. Would have to get larger slip. Don’t like that part. You have to go outside to get to each separate part? Could see good and bad in that.

Sounds fast from what I’m reading.

There are a few for sell but all in Europe but ~ 50k is very affordable if I can find one on East Coast of USA.

Like the look. Only the width would give me pause.