Question for Liveaboards

[Tupaia]

To put this into perspective.



My own cat now 20+ years old owned from new 100k NM engine hours 2000. Six sets of sails and replacement standing and running rigging is way above the cost of diesel if I was running a power cat a 1 litre/NM (6-8 knots). 5 knots on 1 engine (1.86 l/h mineral diesel 2.1 l/h bio diesel).


Sail replacement on a cat is much higher than a mono. Cats don't heal so the sails are subject to high loads. You need high performance sails if you expect high sailing performance from your cat.

[theBigKahuna]

Just spent 4 months in the Bahamas w/ the prior 4 months up/down the FL coast. To answer your question: 70% motoring (no wind/wind on nose/wind on rear), 20% motor sailing and 10% pure sailing on a Leopard 40. It's the problem of 'destination' sailing vs reecreational sailing. But you can't beat the gas mileage!

Cheers
jBrad
sv Fuzzy Logic

[NBs]

Hi,

We live a board 6-7 month yars. We have "trawler" LWL 37 feet and we cruising North European area. We have avagare fuel consuptions yars 0,71 litres / nautical mails and incluid generator about 200 hours and heating about 3 month.


the most expensive expense for us is winter storage in a warm hall, because the sea freezes here and it is impossible to use boats here.

Fuel costs are much less. We are former sailors and moved to a trawler with which we can travel comfortably.

This year I will get solar electricity to reduce the use of the generator and it seems to be working, so the consumption will decrease.

5 kn/3 liters per hour, 7 kn 5 liters / hour and Hull speed 8 kn / 10.5 liters per hour, I usually drive 5-6 kn.

Boat is Nordic Tug 37

NBs

[Stewie12]

I cruised in the Med for many years and the wind always seemed to be against me and I am sure I motored more than I sailed. I would have been as well off in a motor boat than in a sailboat and there would have been a lot more room inside for living aboard.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by davidkaleta

Now, here's the question, how much actual sailing do you actually do, vs using your engines. :

We say "We used to be sailors, but now we are cruisers." For the most only cruisers on sailboats understand that.

I think unless crossing oceans sail boat cruisers motor than they thought they would. I have been full time cruising on sailboat 6.5 years and definitely feel we motor too much of it. It is to the point we are looking at selling the sailboat and getting a trawler. I like sailing , but if I am going to end up motoring a lot may as well go to the dark side.

In the end the only reason to cruise on a sailboat is that you like sailing. And you need to like the sailing at least or more than you like going to new destinations

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Change of pace. I had just sold my ISP company and was still in the rat race. Sailed the boat from Florida east to the Virgin Islands, then south to Grenada. This is where it hit me we did the East Caribbean in a couple weeks and we went back to do it again, taking a year extra.

I recommend you watch this video, it is the best preparation for cruising ever. I know ai got a Sundeer so I’m biased but really, Dashew is a legend so lots to learn:

Nice video, but please let me not ever have to sail somewhere where I need long pants on a nice day!

[confusednoise]

Originally Posted by davidkaleta

Thanks, yep, from Ireland, so no visa issue and i know about the cold lol. Never thought about the canals to be honest.

Hi davidkaleta - a question about Schengen. My understanding is that while Ireland is an EU state it’s not part of Schengen and so Irish citizens have the same 90 day restrictions that others have. Do you know if that’s changed?

Sorry for going off topic, but my wife and I are prepping for some time in the Med in the future and I’m trying to understand the limitations (I’m from the US but have dual citizenship with Ireland). Would love to hear that it won’t be a problem

[gulfislandfred]

I lived aboard in the Salish Sea (Washington State, and BC, Canada, for close to 30 years. We motor a lot here, do to light winds. Catching the tides helps a bit.

No one has mentioned that the beam of a catamaran can limit where you're allowed to dock, and often doubles the cost to dock.

Friends who cruised on a Cape George 36 (fairly tall mast) had it set on deck, and motored for an extended period in the canals of France, then put the mast back up to sail the Caribbean, motor through Panama, and cruise the Pacific.
They said the canals were a highlight of the four year cruise, and recommended it to anyone.

[MVDarlin]

I own both, a 45' twin diesel OA motor yacht and a 34' C&C sailboat. Sailboat cruises at 5 knots with a 30 hp Yanmar engine @ 4 ltr per hour. Poweboat uses 16 ltr per hour combined at 8.2 knots in twin Ford Lehman 120 hp diesel engines. I use the sailboat in the summer in Alaska. It is more Spartan and is like car camping. The powerboat is used in Mexico from Oct to June and has every convenience. It has cruised up the west coast twice and Canada and Alaska twice. I find after twenty years of ownership I tend to move it seldom and stay for extended times at marinas. For extended live aboard I recommend the trawler. If you can afford it a Nordic Tug is an efficient and comfortable design with single screw efficiency.

[clakiep]

Sounds to me You should look for a motor-sailor with a modest and simple rigg to perform reasonable well in favorable winds, and have an easy to lay down mast. And a low-rev diesel engine for efficient low cruising speeds and enough power to head into wind and waves when needed. I actually have one in mind but can't remember the name right now.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties

[Amapola]

When we retired to Florida, we sold our beautiful Tayana 37 and bought a trawler. The wind never seemed to be going the same way we were. The Tayana was great for weekends on the Chesapeake Bay but not great for cruising in Florida or the Caribbean due to her draught. We love our trawler; there's plenty of room and it's bright and airy.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by davidkaleta

Hi All. I'd like an honest answer based on actual experience. My wife and i are planning to buy a boat to live on full time in the Med, and maybe venturing up north to Norway (possibly). We both have a number of years sailing both monohulls and catamarans. Now, here's the question, how much actual sailing do you actually do, vs using your engines. My experience is a 70/30 split for motors.

I'm tempted to start looking at trawlers, due to the fact that their fuel consumption is better per mpg usually and that a lot of time will be spent in one location, maybe a month at a time.

Cheers

David, this is a function of how well the boat you buy sails, and how her engine is equipped.

Is she a true sailboat where she was built to sail and has amazing manners at sea and is an absolute joy to sail?

Or is she a motor sailor that has a big engine designed to push her along, and then if you get 12-15 knots of wind you can throw a sail up and actually do some sailing?

It boils down to quite a few factors, the hull design, the beam vs length, Keel types and so on.

For instance I have a Spencer 42, she is a true sailing boat by every metric you could look at, tall mast, 42' long but only 11'4" wide, full keel with a cutaway forefoot.



With this boat I have the distinct pleasure of being able to sail well to windward without bashing, she slices the waves with her fine bow rather than slamming into them and I have seen boat speeds through the water (according to the signet knot log) of 9.3!

Whereas on the flip side, this boat only motors at 6 knots, 5.6 if I am towing my 10' Livingston dinghy.

Thus I am a happy man when the wind is blowing anything over 7 knots because it means I am going to be out here flying under sail in a boat that can waltz over big seas with grace and poise.

On the flip side some friends of mine bought a Cal 246, at 46' long she has a beam over 14', spacious as all getup on the inside, but has a shorter mast than my Spencer 42 and a smaller boom!

This means she is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to sailing and anywhere this boat would try to follow me under sail, I just wind up leaving them behind.

That being said, when we get where we are going, the pilot house on their boat is nice for being able to see outside and all around, my boat is more of the down in a hole feeling.

But we have a similar amount of living space although they also do have an aft cabin and engine room, and their boat is significantly larger.

When it comes to motoring, well they can run away from me, as they have a larger engine, and a larger propeller.

The irony being that if they want to keep up with me when sailing, they have to use their engine unless the wind is north of 20 knots, but then if we are going to windward, they are bashing and riding the vomit comet! 🤮

So with my boat I get capabilities they do not.

Now when it comes to trawlers. Trawlers are nice in many ways, they certainly have a lot to offer, but they are going to burn significantly more fuel because they are wider and have to plow the water out of the way rather than slipping through it.

A 42' trawler is going to have a beam around 14' and around a 130-150 hp engine if it is a single screw. You are looking at about 2-4 GPH running that engine.

On my sailboat my Yanmar 4JH3E sips 0.5 GPH, and thus is incredibly economical to run. On the 130 gallons of fuel I carry onboard I can motor north of 1000 nm and still have a reserve.

Lets just look at how far you can get a boat on 100 gallons of diesel.

@0.5 GPH my Spencer will run for 200H assuming a boat speed of 6 knots, that is 1,200 NM

Say a 42' trawler burns 3 GPH @ 7.5 knots, that 100 gallons gets you 33.3 hours of runtime and you would make 250 NM

Thus the trawler is going to make it less than 1/4 the distance on the same amount of fuel.

I am not sure what Fuel is running in your part of the world, but in Washington State it was going for $5.49 a gallon for #2 Diesel at the marina.

That 100 gallons is going to cost $549.00, when you look at it like that, it will cost the trawler more than 4x as much to go the same distance as my sailboat.

What it all comes down to is how much money you want to burn. 🔥💵

These are all things you need to take into account, but most important of all with any boat you consider purchasing, you need to ensure you will be comfortable living on it.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by confusednoise

Hi davidkaleta - a question about Schengen. My understanding is that while Ireland is an EU state it’s not part of Schengen and so Irish citizens have the same 90 day restrictions that others have. Do you know if that’s changed?

Sorry for going off topic, but my wife and I are prepping for some time in the Med in the future and I’m trying to understand the limitations (I’m from the US but have dual citizenship with Ireland). Would love to hear that it won’t be a problem

All EU citizens have the same right as Schengen citizens and can ignore the 90 day rule in Schengen.

[eric12]

We were liveaboards on our beloved sailboat. Unfortunately I had a stroke which effected the left side of my body. I can't hoist sails or walk a rolling deck. Long story short, a power boat came up for sale a hundred ft away from us.
We currently are liveaboards in Mexico.
We have done both and currently doing it.
The most important thing we have learned is too decide how you want to live.
We are quite happy to be dock cruisers cuz of my physical limitations.
The differences between sail and power in to obvious to post.
It takes as much energy to wish as it does to plan.
Know you lifestyle and have deep pockets to achieve it.

[Angus Beaumont]

You’ll probably use the engine more in the med but a lot faster with the sails up. We have averaged about 250hrs a year on our engine and have gone 15,000nm in that time