Reality Check - How Much for Upkeep Per Year?

[Teeto]

We purchased a 44' cat, older (12 years) but with major upgrades - all new rigging, engines, electronics, most sails and all new paint. We have still managed to spend over $50000 in the last year when you add up slipping, insurance, marinas, plus all the replacing of various pumps, wind generator, hot water system, tv, generator, spinnaker etc.
Some sailors advocate sailing simply without all the gadgets, but not too many retirees manage to get their wives to come along without the extra comforts. It just gets too uncomfortable after a few weeks and they want to go home. They need showers, refrigeration, air cond +++

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Teeto

We purchased a 44' cat, older (12 years) but with major upgrades - all new rigging, engines, electronics, most sails and all new paint. We have still managed to spend over $50000 in the last year when you add up slipping, insurance, marinas, plus all the replacing of various pumps, wind generator, hot water system, tv, generator, spinnaker etc.
Some sailors advocate sailing simply without all the gadgets, but not too many retirees manage to get their wives to come along without the extra comforts. It just gets too uncomfortable after a few weeks and they want to go home. They need showers, refrigeration, air cond +++

Bet you are not planning on spending $50,000 a year. Sounds as if there was a fair bit of refit in that amount.

What did you get ?

[Teeto]

Fair enough, we hope to spend quite a bit less this year. We have a Chamberlin 44, worth about $400k assuming she's devalued heaps like every other cat out there over the last year. Beautiful boat and we want to keep her that way. I still think you'd be lucky to get away with less than $20k in maintenance a year. Here's hoping we're lucky!

[downunder]

Sounds feasible.

Nice vessel. Any photos - start thread on Chamberlain 44

[Teeto]

Will do, once I get my crashed laptop up and running. More$$

[jacket_fan]

I find it interesting that there is such a wide range in lifestyles. Much like life on shore. What I have garnered through all this is that the range is from a few hundred to $3,000 a month for just boat upkeep.

I had forgotten about bumfuzzle. I had read the blog years ago. Enjoyed their adventure. The detailed cost accounting is quite enlightening.

I have gotten a quote of $8,500 per year for insurance. That is for an inexperienced person like myself. I understand it is less for experienced captains. That was through Lloyds and may be on the high side.

Check me on this but this sounds like what I should budget per month:

Insurance - $700

Living expenses – $1,000
(Food, phone, fun)

Boat expenses - $500
(Marina, mooring etc)

Upkeep - $1,500
(Anything that breaks, haul outs, recurring maintenance)

That totals $3,700 per month. And includes all expenses. That matches with the average of bumfuzzle since they were uninsured. Is this reasonable?

[Sand crab]

The Bums boat was a 35'. Bigger boats cost more. FWIW

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

The Bums boat was a 35'. Bigger boats cost more. FWIW

Did the Bums spend a lot on the upkeep of their boat? Disregarding the problems they had with the bad build of course. If I recall a good deal of their budget went to luxuries.

[Sand crab]

I recall the luxury extras too like renting Harleys in Europe. Don't know if they put that in. On the other hand Maccas and Taco Bell are cheap!
I don't follow them anymore now that it's a baby blog. I remember a fairly good itemization so you could use parts of it as I guide.

[jacket_fan]

The bumfuzzle costs include all the luxuries, trips and excursions. Their total average cost was $2981 per month. Their cost brakedown was:

Communication
Groceries
Restaurants/bars
Boat Supplies
Other

jan 2007
feb 2007
mar 2007
apr 2007

communication
45.86
4.97
59.00
21.57

groceries
278.86
307.99
143.16
322.10

restaurants/bars
632.06
495.17
750.36
460.15

diesel
427.54
91.01
61.00
249.01

marina/mooring
24.55
105.00
21.00
1,373.13

boat supplies
232.40
241.14
86.90
1,027.98

other
289.24
512.98
2,085.96
986.29

1,930.51
1,758.26
3,207.38
4,440.23

They noted $25k of boat related expenses not incuded in boat supplies. Those items were adding a watermaker, riggin and SSB radio.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by jacket_fan

Check me on this but this sounds like what I should budget per month:

Upkeep - $1,500
(Anything that breaks, haul outs, recurring maintenance)

I do a haul out every other year (46' mono) and it only costs around $2,500. I don't do any of the work myself, even to the point where the yard guy picks up the boat in its slip on a Monday and returns it to the slip on a Wednesday. That cost covers the haul, the cleaning, bottom prep, two coats of Trinidad Petit Pro, and the launch. This year I could have gotten it for only $2,000, but I had the rudder stripped and then a new barrier coat applied, which cost an extra $500.

On the odd year when I'm not hauling the boat, I have the diesel serviced professionally, replacing all impellers and belts, et cetera. That costs me around $500.

If you stay on top of things it costs less in the long run. It also helps to schedule work during the off season. I have a long-term relationship with my mechanic and the boat yard, and I usually give them a generous window of when to do the work. This year, I asked for a haul sometime between New Years and Easter, whenever business at the yard was slack. They appreciate this flexibility, and tend to reward it with good pricing.

[belizesailor]

Motivated by the perpetual discussion of this subject here on CF, I went back and looked at the books for 2009 for my boat and did some very basic number crunching (this was the last complete year I had a copy of on my PC).

Context: In 2009, I was still running her in charter so had commercial use insurance, I was paying a modest amount for dockage during the charter season (about $150US/month, plus some transient dockage during charters), probably burning a bit more in fuel than I would cruising, but spending about the same that I would on maintenance costs, my numbers do not include anything other than "hard" costs -- meaning something I actually shelled out dollars for -- as opposed to "soft" costs like depreciation, cost of capital, or future projected maintenance expenses.

I've included expenses as percentage of insured value so that this can be extrapolated to other boats.

(Sorry for the formatting issues. Forum does not like tables)

Expenses 2009 In Charter Service

% of Insured Value

Dockage 1,853 1.12%
Fuel 491 0.30%
Maintenance 5,546 3.36%
Insurance 4,200 2.55%

Total 12,090 7.33%

Estimated in Cruising Mode

Dockage 900 0.55%
Fuel 491 0.30%
Maintenance 5,546 3.36%
Insurance 2,400 1.45%

Total 9,337 5.66%


In the past I've usually gone with the popular "about 10% of value" response. In charter use, if I allocated future expected maintenance expenses this would probably work out about right. Probably a bit less for cruising use.

Neither set of calculations includes cost of capital. In my case I have no hard cost of capital, but that money could be doing something else (although it did actually earn a profit in 2009).

[Zonker]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Neither set of calculations includes cost of capital. In my case I have no hard cost of capital, but that money could be doing something else (although it did actually earn a profit in 2009).

Money could create negative interest ... so it is may be invested very well in a (charter) boat ...

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Zonker

Money could create negative interest ... so it is may be invested very well in a (charter) boat ...

Yes, I have certainly made some other "investments" where I would have been much better off just to have stuffed the money under the mattress...or at least have had some fun blowing it!