Sailing in Ice (Patagonia, Alaska) with a Cat

[Factor]

See Seawind 1000 in Alaska for a couple who took their tropical cat to alaska.

[44'cruisingcat]

Fallado's Circumnavigation

[DaveOnCudjoe]

I can't say that I agree with the assertion that cats are less suited for cold. All boats require preping for greater extremes. If you're purposly seeking ice take steel, otherwise be prudent. Dave

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by DaveOnCudjoe

I can't say that I agree with the assertion that cats are less suited for cold...

A typical Catamaran might be expected to have more exposed (heat losing) surface area per useful unit volume, than a similar sized mono’. If that’s the case, then it’s less suited to cold.

[Event_Horizon]

Originally Posted by GordMay

A typical Catamaran might be expected to have more exposed (heat losing) surface area per useful unit volume, than a similar sized mono’. If that’s the case, then it’s less suited to cold.

I haven't done any calculations but it might not be this simple.

The thermal conductivity of water is something like 24x that of air. This means that most of the heat transfer is happening though the submerged portion of the hull per unit surface area.

I'd be interested to know the WSA comparison between "similar" monos and cats.

*Define similar as internal volume. ex: 40 ft cat and 60 ft mono should be roughly equivalent.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Event_Horizon

The thermal conductivity of water is something like 24x that of air. This means that most of the heat transfer is happening though the submerged portion of the hull per unit surface area.

I'd be interested to know the WSA comparison between "similar" monos and cats.

*Define similar as internal volume. ex: 40 ft cat and 60 ft mono should be roughly equivalent.

That may be so but a cat has a lot of internal space to warm. The 2 hulls rarely seem to have a door making a warm air barrier with the saloon. A mono seems easier to enclose the space.

[Event_Horizon]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

That may be so but a cat has a lot of internal space to warm. The 2 hulls rarely seem to have a door making a warm air barrier with the saloon. A mono seems easier to enclose the space.

True, though I wasn't making a case for a cat in the north...just trying to uncover some of the complexity of the issue.

Personally, I wouldn't take a cat anywhere around ice because I can't even imagine the types of wonky things it'd do with asymmetric ice/snow loads. For that matter if I were skirting any polar region I'd want a powerboat...

[44'cruisingcat]

There had to be SOMETHING cats didn't do better. Turns out it's being an icebreaker.... I can live with that limitation.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

Correct, surface area on catamarans make them far more difficult to heat, the large windows make them loose heat faster, and the low load carrying capability coupled with a deck area three times the size of a comperable sized mono mean lots of snow can be deadly to catamarans. In the past winter in the chesapeake we had around 3-4 ft of snow during one event. Every cubic ft of snow weights around 10 lbs, so 800 sq ft with a cubic ft of snow on it and that's 8000 lbs and our boat was sitting a full ft below its water lines.

I'm not saying that these trips can't be made in the summer time, but ocean sailing in temps substantially below zero (C) anywhere is a risky thing on a catamaran, it's what a good insulated steel hulled monohull is made for. A trimaran would be very different as effectively it has one narrow hull and if the amas aren't connected by netting going between them, it has far less deck area than a catamaran of comparable size or possibly even a monohull.

I was aboard in the northern Bay a good bit this winter also. Was there some reason you could not shovel the snow? My boat PALED in comparison to the driveways I dug out. Light work. Except for the blizzard day, I doubt it would have interrupted a cruise (I have sailed in the snow a number of times).

I think there is a big difference between going in cold places in the summer, than being in temperate places in the winter. Cape horn in the shoulder season is one thing. Coast hopping (Alaska inside passage?) in the summer is another.

I would ask sailors with that sort of expereince.

Yes, cats are harder to heat, but you can make adaptations. Mine was built in Canada, so honestly, it's not bad.

[Banjo]

Good evening,

I would hardly call myself an expert, but I spent 14 days cruising Patagonia a few years ago. (Maghellan,Beagle and Cape Horn) We were aboard a large aluminium monohul.
As a keen multihull sailor I kept on thinking about a cat's suitability to cruise these waters.
Why I think a catamaran will be good:
The great views from the bridge deck saloon. Patagonia is all about the wilderness.
The level sailing.
The two of everything i.e. two rudders, two engines in case you have a breakdown.
I will have no concerns about the seaworthiness of any well built, well fitted out and designed catamaran sailing in those waters. Lots of f/glass boats around there.

Why I think a catamaran will not be good:
I would like a boat that if really nessesary can beat out of a tight situation with a howling gale against you. A boat that can come about quickly and will be highly manueverable under sail only. The best of cats simply cannot beat and tack and nip out of tight spots as well as a reasonably good monohull. You are sailing in confined space down there.
The other thing that I will be conserned about is the windage on a multihull when the boat is at anchor. Mooring Patagonia style is quite something. The weather changes within minutes and it howls. A multi in 70 kts of breeze will give the wind a lot to get hold off. And often the change of wind means you will now lie beam on, secured with 4 ropes ashore as well as an anchor. So the boat will fight the breeze.
That's when you would wish you had a monohull instead.

It will be good to hear other views regarding the anchoring.

Regards,
Banjo.

[ms100]

When you say Patagonia, I think you are talking of Ushuahia, south of Argentine.
In the east coast of Patagonia, you won't find ice.
I live in Bahia Blanca. regards

[schoonerdog]

regarding anchoring in high winds with land lines, I've anchored through 70 knot winds a couple times over the past 10 years through hurricane floyd and isabelle. What I do is to bring 4 land lines over to one side of a huge sea anchor swivel, then on the other side of the swivel two rodes lead back up to the boat. That way your boat is free to swing with the winds. I personally wouldn't want to be on anything but a catamaran in a nasty blow at anchor as they are so incredibly stable.

[bonobo]

Thank you, thank, thank you !!!! For all the differed point of views and links to other sites where to find even more advise!
If I did not reply sooner, it is because I do not always have internet access on the boat.

Lets make my plans and request a bid more clear...

I do NOT intend to spent a winter in Alaska, North-West territory, Patagonian channels or Antarctica !!!


In the south:
I wish, if possible to cruse the patagonian channels including Ushuaia, Port williams in the summer (Their summer over-there in the south) Eventually passing the Horn on a nice day....
Visiting some of the southern islands if they have a acceptable moring-place , sheltered harbor...

I think, best will be traveling from new zeeland I supose instead from Brazil and sailing down the coast to the south...?

In the north - West:
spending a summer in Alaska, the glaciers and the inside passage..

In the North - east:
Newfoundland, Labrador, Greenland, iceland.....

To spend the winter.... Where would be the place town south where I could stay during the winter season, in a marina or harbor maybe and not have ice or heavy snow problems?

Same in the north?
West or east, are there places where the water will not freeze? Vancouver? vancouver island ? Somewhere in the st-laurance ?

My cat is made of heavy aluminum, completely isolated and with a diesel heat-system.
Not the regular plastic two weeks summer-holliday renting cat....
But more a 4X4 cat that can beach on gravel....
8 solar panels, Watermaker, generator, wind-generator.
800 liter diesel 600 liter water....

Looking forward to more advise,
Thank you all in advance !!!
Marc

[hummingway]

South-west coast of Canada is mild in the winter. There are some marinas where fresh water flows by that might have a freezing problem but most will not. Vancouver for city life is good but a little more expensive then some other marinas. Victoria and the Saanich Peninsula are exquisite and the gulf islands are terrific cruising grounds. Keep a weather eye for winter storms and it is great. If you are coming this winter my slip will be available from September to April at about $500 per month. That seems pretty typical of the prices for 42 feet around here.

[hummingway]

I just remebered you're talking cat so you'll need an outside slip I imagine. It will definately be more challenging finding a marina slip - lots of harbours to moor though. The winter storms can blow so you'll want to choose well.