Shocked by hull material catamaran

[minaret]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Solid, but not epoxy, unless rebuilt in epoxy after a traumatic grounding as in the photographed L570.

Good to see that your L440 hasn't disintegrated into small pieces as a result of the "shocking hull material" only suitable for a kayak (post#11) or sunk without warning due to the through hull fittings vaporising on their 5th birthday.

Find and post the laminate schedule for this exterior skin and I'll post the official laminate schedule for an extremely well known brand of sea kayak I have been involved in the production of. You might be surprised by the result. IF you could actually find this information, which is not publicly disseminated. Wonder why?

[smj]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The reason he's asking is because epoxy layups don't take gel coat, they have to be painted. Nothing wrong with a nice Awlgrip job but now the costs go up even more. It's certainly possible that the boat was built using an epoxy layup but it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The use of Awlgrip would be quite a weight savings as compared with a gel coat finish, but on the Lagoon probably not much of a factor.


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[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

I think he may be referring to vinylester - not quite conventional resin not quite epoxy.

Typical is first coat vinylester and then the balance in polyester resins but if it's infusion then you may be right. Epoxy layups are usually reserved for an upper end boat and Lagoon just doesn't fit that profile, nothing wrong with the boats but Benni keeps a pretty tight lid on costs.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by minaret

Find and post the laminate schedule for this exterior skin and I'll post the official laminate schedule for an extremely well known brand of sea kayak I have been involved in the production of. You might be surprised by the result. IF you could actually find this information, which is not publicly disseminated. Wonder why?

Through hull cutout slightly below waterline of our Lagoon 400 revealed solid infused fibreglass of 15mm thickness. No doubt the cored hull bottoms of the L570 under discussion has similiar or greater strength.

I don't know anything about sea kayaks, but if your's are less "flimsy" then good luck and happy paddling.

[leftbrainstuff]

They are built to a price and not a standard.

Those pics also reveal numerous other composite defects including poor wetup, delamination, lots of failed secondary bonds. This type of construction would never pass any destructive tests. But then they aren't mandated too.

From a strength perspective composite structures like this tend to be over designed. Because deflection tends to be the design to requirement. Cheap cores help to meet the deflection requirement. They're hidden from sight so cost tends to dominate.

I'll stick to the solid fiberglass hull of my 1984 Liberty 458. Replaced a bunch of thru hulls and seacocks last year. Lot's of lovely thick no void fiberglass over an inch thick at the turn of the bilge. That gives durability something foam cores lack.

Then again I'll never match the theoretical top speed of that cat. It's all tradeoffs.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I have to agree with that....Steel or Alloy hulls and keels will survive a much greater bashing

Impact resistance is the real benefit of steel or alloy. You tradeoff corrosion resistance and repairability with simple tools.

There is no perfect material.

[Three Sisters]

There is a layer of roving evident in the hull photographs so can't be called a "chopper gun" boat.

Geeshus. What a mess !

[PaulinOz]

"Impact resistance is the real benefit of steel or alloy"

Did not seem to work that well for these guys maybe they could benefit from a look at one of the anchor threads as well.

A U.S. Navy guided missile cruiser in Japan just ran aground in poor weather. Nobody was injured in the incident, which involved the USS Antietam.
According to the Navy Times, Antietam was in the vicinity of its home port of Yokosuka, Japan, when it anchored in high winds. The crew noticed the cruiser was dragging anchor and they got the ship under way again. But the Antietam promptly lost pitch control of its propellers, ran aground, and lost 1,100 gallons of oil. The U.S. government has notified Japanese authorities and is conducting a cleanup.

[arsenelupiga]

reality is french do the best boats and are best racers.

CF seem to be collection of bitter (mainly us and english) posters criticising every aspect of french boats, including toilets.

get a life.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

reality is french do the best boats and are best racers.

CF seem to be collection of bitter (mainly us and english) posters criticising every aspect of french boats, including toilets.

get a life.

I think it is fair to review and discuss problems with any vessel brand or type no matter the country of build.

That this particular vessel was French built is not the issue.

Certainly been plenty of criticism/discussion of balsa core boats also and balsa core is not only used by French builders. Discussion and debate is all good.

Its also useful to know if your vessel has brass seacocks fitted such that one can plan ahead.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by downunder

I think it is fair to review and discuss problems with any vessel brand or type no matter the country of build.

That this particular vessel was French built is not the issue.

Certainly been plenty of criticism/discussion of balsa core boats also and balsa core is not only used by French builders. Discussion and debate is all good.

Its also useful to know if your vessel has brass seacocks fitted such that one can plan ahead.

all valid points.

however, criticising without providing working and proven alternative, is useless.

I remember saildrive SD 50 panic that seem to subside lately. It is all rubbish. So I dont buy these free advises over CF any more.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

all valid points.

however, criticising without providing working and proven alternative, is useless.

I remember saildrive SD 50 panic that seem to subside lately. It is all rubbish. So I dont buy these free advises over CF any more.

You dont have to buy anything.
CF is a chat forum with a mix of professionals, owners and armchair whingers. SOMEWHERE.... in that mix is some good knowledge.

Your job, should you choose to take it, is to find out who knows what they are talking about. The info is all free.

This message will not self destruct in 5 minutes.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

reality is french do the best boats and are best racers.

CF seem to be collection of bitter (mainly us and english) posters criticising every aspect of french boats, including toilets.

get a life.

Are you suggesting this boat with a hole in it was French? had a French racer as skipper?? and is a piece of ****????

[rh81]

@arsenelupiga

You may be right with some posters here bashing french boats and especially catamarans but one thing you can not talk away ist the "quality" of the laminate. The damaged part of the keel looks like glued together towels with lots of failed bonds....

And I am not against catamarans or Lagoons - the L400 for example is on my list.

[meatservo]

Great thread man!

Great advice, wisdom and experience, keep this sh*t coming...



meatservo